Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

Maybe you can direct me to those collectors, because I looked through the list, and all I see are collectors that have weapons with either inherent damage mods, or blank inscriptions, but none of them modded (save for some caster weapons and off-hands/shields). I do believe you would still have to purchase them from players, or get lucky with drops.

Thats enough money for you? Lol!

Sorry, 100k wouldnt be enough for me. Before loot scaling I had 500k which got spent (no idea what on now, I never buy weapons off other players)

After loot scaling the most Ive ever had saved up was 60k. And Ive already completed every game so boo hoo, I dont get anything out of doing it again.

I am confused. Doesn't loot scaling make it harder to find/get items from drops and removing it would make it easier? And then by removing it and making it easier to farm/get items yourself shouldn't the prices go down? Confused by people saying LS made the prices of things drop. If they are harder to come by shouldn't the prices have gone up???

The first one I clicked on was Vabbi collectors and they are all fully modded. Obviously when you had a look you must have clicked on the ascalon collector /fail.

Any way, when you finish factions / nf / eotn, you get a free fully modded green and can choose from a wide range of plentiful weapons to suit your needs, so no, no one has to buy weapons from other players. You can also try opening chests yourself and getting your own weapons for a change ffs. The only reason to buy weapons off other players is for rare skins, and if you want one of them, you have to pay. Why should the farmer waste their time farming the weapon and you expect to buy it for 10k?

Maybe some people want GOOD looking armor, and just don't want to be arsed to farm for 8 hours a day for a year till they can afford a single piece of an elite armor-set. Yeah sure its an exaggeration, but Anet really looks like dumbasses when they say the casual player can make money, because unless you farm everyday for at least an hour or two, you're not going to make jack ****.

Farming used to be something you could pick up a buck here or there and save up, from trolls or griffons. Now, warrs have hardly anywhere they can farm, bots still don't care because they have an infinite patience, people who just play a little bit here and there make 1/10000 of what hard-core farmers make Why can't casual players actually make some decent cash like Anet claims they can? I know alot of replies to this are gonna be that you can make LOADS of cash, but I have tried all those, as I have a 55,warr,ranger, and ritualist, and none of those runs make more than like 2k per every few runs. Also, not everyone in GW is as knowledgable as you guys, that, AND not everyone has every campaign, so they don't have the skills/campaign needed to make good cash, it makes me wonder if Anet some of this into consideration before they beat everyone to death with the nerf-bat.

Its sad that you have to cut corners with collectors armor because we can't afford elite armor like everyone used to be able too. (Not joking, farming used to be profitable )

I wouldn't mind the way farming works if it really couldn't have been done any other way. It just doesn't make sense to me if you think about it, this is basicly what it could've been either way:

Anet does nothing

Those "casual" players they claim to support can still buy, despite the super-inflated economy:

Elite armor
Salvaging kits
ID kits
All the skills and cap signets they need.


Anet nerfs everything to hell

Bos don't care, they still farm 24 hours a day because they don't get angry and stop farming after zero drops in 40 runs.

The "casual" players Anet claims to support cannot buy:

Elite armors
They are getting reamed by skill trainers charging 1k a shot for the skill.
They gotta pay high prices for good ID and salvage kits they don't have as much money for.

This is excluding the 2k or so you pay for the runes and insignias for each individual piece of armor AND the weapons AND the shields.

Loot scaling only affects regular drops. It doesn't do anything with the droprates of rares, greens, dyes, tomes, scrolls, rare materials, DoA gemstones and special event drops. The only things affected by lootscaling are the things we merchant for gold. Nothing else changes except the amount of gold that enters the economy. With less gold to go around, prices of traders (both in-game and players) will drop. And they did.

By "good" you mean "elite."

Elite armors, titles, etc. weren't introduced for the casual player. Ask any of the old timers how it used to be.

/notsigned

Started long after lootscaling went into effect and love it. Every game I've ever played remotely similar to this has had some form of lootscaling and it was a mistake they failed to implement in the beginning. Simply put, the game is designed around party based play, and the loot given is rewarded based on the assumption of said party play.

Just because you figure out some way of exploiting a particular region (*cough* raptor's nest *cough*) to get by with only one or two characters does not mean you should be rewarded for it by taking all the loot originally intended for eight players.

I have zero problem making more than enough money to keep me playing the game and outfitting my characters as I see fit. Other than the likely <5% of the player base that regularly take part in player-to-player sales, loot scaling never had any marked effect other than adjust the vendor npc prices on player supplied goods.

All removing loot scaling would accomplish is let those who think things *should* cost 100K + XXXe actually get similar prices again while driving up prices for the other 95%+ of the player base who would not benefit since, shudder, they'd still be playing the game as designed.

If loot scaling is keeping the elitist asshats out of this game, more power to it.

This is SO wrong. I've been farming casually and I got my first 100k (total, not cumulative) yesterday (yooo hooo I hear you lauging at the back of the room!) It hasn't really been difficult, hulking stone and raptor (this one is trickier) and I may envisage going for glacial stones and d-cores, though I don't really have the time atm.

In short: no it's no madness, I wouldn't call it fun from my side, but I guess some people love it.

Btw, if by elite armor you mean the 15k ones, I don't think they're insanely difficult to achieve. On the other hand, the obsidian one may be seriously challenging, which is a good thing (though it may be frustrating, I like the look of obsidian Ele).

Or to put it in easier words, after LS, we still got the same number of gold (weapon) drops, but only 1\8 as much gold (coins). Players have a lot less money now and the same number of items to sell, so prices fell. I would love for the prices to go up again so I can sell my golds to players again instead of the merch. And as previously pointed out, if you dont want to pay for the items, end game greens ftw.

So if they remove LS, its win win for everyone.

B.S.

I started playing in November and get to play a few hours a day, *never* farm, and just put my second complete set of elite on a character. With as many characters as I have in late game areas now, the rate of income is enough that I can expect with only slightly more than casual input of time be able to afford a set of elite every month. Frankly, being able to get it any faster would devalue the concept of elite.

People who aren't making enough money in the current game just aren't playing the game, they're expecting to have things handed to them. Heck, I've made enough just putting weapons on my heros in the past six weeks with the BMP to almost afford a suit of elite.

A-net claims casual players can make all they need. 1 set of weapons some max armor and maybe a few skills this is about 20kish max. Elite armors are "Elite" for a reason they are not supposed to be for casual players. They are supposed to be for players who play more religeously and have put time into the game. And I have over 200k from a week of farming 2hish a day. Trolls and Griffons and such are not good farms anymore not at all.

and where is the money for skills? (you + heroes)

In the "old times" the only thing keeping every smuck from getting elite armor was the location, I remember how I fought to get to places like the granite citadel, and marhans grotto, now you can just get a sin/derv to run you there no problem. I've beaten every campaign, have multiple level 20's, the only thing left for me to do now is make money so I can get nice looking armor and get new skills.

I can make about 50k a week if I solo the UW, but my internet connection can be very laggy at times, and lag in the UW = death, especially if you're running from ataxes. I realize my argument has its flaws, and there are expections, but I just wish Anet would take a stance on this, instead of saying stuff about casual players, maybe make some guides on what areas are more profitable, official guides.

When you've done as much as I have, the line between what you "Need" by anets standards, and what I "want" after I've done so much in PVE, it becomes very frustrating

I'm still not totally clear as to the purpose of LS. First, it's to scale back the ability of the gold sellers to amass their gold inventory, then it's to promote team activity, then it's to help control the in-game economy, then...etc etc.

From my point of view, as a casual gamer who farms from time to time, if you boil it down to it's root, it's really a fun killer.

Example: Last night I was going through the Shards of Orr 1st lvl on my way to the Bloodstone. I was H/H by myself and made it to through, but the only drops I got, including cash, was 102gp and a white scythe!!!! How can fighting your way through 3 mobs of assorted skeletons and zombies and getting nothing for it be considered fun?

Bring back the fun, remove LS!!

/signed

We all know you dont need skills to play the game. All you need is starting skills, send your toon to eotn, get free PVE skills and put 3 on your bar (so now you only need 4 actuall skill and a res sig), and get ursan asap. Once you have ursan you dont need anything else

P.S this post is sarcasm.

Your example has nothing to do with lootscaling. Without lootscaling, your full party would receive the exact same drops.

I totally agree with you and am in the same boat on that. I want a ridiculous amount of money as well so I can buy whatever I want whenever.

But I don't want to do it at the expense of players that haven't achieved as much.

I checked the Vabbi collectors, and yeah, no go. Seriously give me a link, cause all I see is modded caster stuff. Don't see any swords/axes/daggers/hammers/scythes/spears modded at all.

Methinks you don't know what lootscaling does, because it would not help in your situation.

Let's say that the formula for total non-rare goods that can drop from a particular badass is [Max Loot for PB][1*(n/n) + 1*(n-1/n) + 1*(n-2/n) + ... + 1*(1/n)] where n = max party size for the area. Without loot scaling, the party always splits up this total amount of goods, even if that party size is one. With loot scaling, for every player less than max, you drop the right most 1*(n-X/n) increase such that a soloer still makes more than he would in a full party but doesn't get all the same loot as the sum total of a full party. Why this doesn't help you is that hench and heros count the same as a human player for division of all loot.

People calling for the removal of loot scaling want the ability to solo/duo farm exploitable elite and/or HM areas and keep everything a party of eight would have shared for themselves. It doesn't help the casual player at all and in fact would inflate prices of the handful of player traded goods you might have a hankering for even further from your reach.

/notsigned

lootscaling is better for the casual player and it should stay in place after the rtm policy (gg on that anet - lets hope it makes a big difference). it lets people make more money by just playing the game. if you want to play in easy (normal) mode, then you won't make as much money, but with all the high powered skills available these days, why should anyone play in easy (normal) mode unless they are trying to speed through the game?

The main reason why I signed is that it would mean more fun to me, but in terms of cash it actually doesn't really matter. Before LS I farmed trolls and stuff and duo UW for ectos. Now I do DoA HM runs or still duo UW with my buddy. I can still make the money I need. But I sincerely think that for the most players it's difficult to get some cash, unless you're experienced.

Yesterday I vanquished some areas and got one crappy gold, it is what it is, but it would be nice to get some more crapp.

And about Anet: I don't think they will remove LS to be honest. Their point will be that certain players (farmers) would make ten times more money as a 'normal' player. So it would be imba. But at this point, experienced players are still making 10 times that money. I know I do but if Anet thinks they fixed this...whatever guys, you're in charge.

Another point they will make is that the system is not intended to support more than 1000k in your storage. I know we all stock up some more on mules or in ecto form etc. but I think Anet likes the current economy.

I stand corrected. I've been playing mostly casters and never even noticed that martial arts professions don't get their collector stuff with all the bells and whistles like casters do. That is actually an odd discrepancy, since even all the preorder bonus weapons are fully modded regardless of type.

However, Factions, NF and GW:EN all grant you one fully modded item of your choice per character that completes the storyline, and you can easily beat the game with what you scavenge on the way.

If people want to PvP, TA, HA, GvG, PvE, let them, stop trying to dictate how people should play the game, if you cant be arsed to farm or whatever dont, but dont knock the people that enjoy it. Why do 'hardcore' farmers need inhibiting anyway, do the actions of other people in this game piss you off that much? Jesus you need to chill a little.

No, the sh*t economy and the widening gap between haves and have not is what pisses people off.

You are so far off the mark it is unbelievable, have you not read any of this thread ?

The economy has been shit since LS was adopted into the game, it used to be easy to farm for materials and salvage all the crap purples / whites, by doing this you could make cash a lot more easily than after LS.

The argument for rares, materials , greens is invalid ,as Anet introduced a hotfix pdq when they realised how badly the original loot nerf had bolloxed up the economy.

How the hell will more white and purples dropping affect the economy in a bad way ?
The rich just got richer with LS and the poor newer players got shafted.
This thread is turning into a pro farm v antifarm issue and that is not the point really.

And the "economy" wasnt shit before LS? no the economy was WORSE before LS but people seem to think that because they had more zeros in their account that it meant something.

It DIDNT. Money had proportionally LESS value and the gap between rich and poor players wasn't a gap...it was a freaking abyssal CHASM (with flesh eating rabid monsters at the bottom).


but carry on people you seem to have found out the miracle cure for the worlds monetary problems after all.



just print more money! -.-

/not signed.

Although when I farm I would love to get more cash I think it would be a mistake to end lootscaling. It would widen the gap between the rich and poor and cause inflation. Maybe add some more items to the exempt list. But as of right now you can get plenty of money playing the game. Granted this is coming from someone who is already well off in the realm of Tyria. But any new player wouldn't know how, what and where to farm anyway. They may not even care to in the beginning. I played for months before I started to look into farming. When a person starts to play all they care about is advancing and enjoying the story. I know there may be some exceptions to this. But for the most part the new player will move along in the story oblivious that there is any lootscaling.

I hope that with the new interventions implemented against the botter/s that it will cause a steeper rise in the value of a gold coin. Which will give everyone a boost in the economic aspect in the game.

I don't see them removing it though. One of the reasons I seen Gaile say is it is unfair for 1 person to get 8 people's drops just buy going solo. So don't expect it ending anytime soon.

I would like to see an end to farming code, if there is any.

One person getting drops for 8 people is fair - they don't take drops away from 7 other people or anything and everyone has option to do so.

Anyway, i don't really care about LS, i only wish they removed collectable drops from scaled list for obvious reasons (collectors are there to give people easy access to decent items, ffs!)

Earlier I challenged people to name one single thing that casual players NEED that is farther out of their reach with LS. Nobody said anything, but I have one that I had forgotten about.

Skills. After the first few, skills cost 1k each. And 1k is a lot more money with LS than without LS. I reached UAS a long time ago, and I had forgotten how difficult and demoralizing it is to try and put together a new build when you can't even scrape together 8k, until I was trying to help a guildie with a 600/smite build.

LS does not affect the supply of anything worth selling to an entity other than a merchant. LS has made the prices of all those things drop by reducing the amount of new gold being created at the merchants. Most of the people in this thread are whining that LS puts bling farther out of their reach but in fact it brings bling closer. Removing LS would cause massive inflation, prices of everything would skyrocket back to pre-LS levels, and Guru's flood of bitter tears would have a slightly different flavor.

HOWEVER, LS makes it harder to obtain skills because skills have not changed in price. If a person has just one or two builds on one or two characters, this is not too big a deal, but as they explore more of the game they quickly run up against a wall. They earn money more slowly than they discover new skill combinations they want to try. And there is no way to get money that is not convoluted and chancy (the simplest is running, with a learning curve and a risk of leeches). Hero skill trainers help a little, but not enough.

This is the only way I can think of that LS genuinely hurts casual players, but it's enough. As much as I hate throwing my lot in with muddy-headed crybabies, as much as I know I would see less variety in characters as bling rocketed farther out of reach, LS does actually prevent good players from becoming better players by making large numbers of skill unlocks prohibitively expensive for PvE characters.

So . . . I'm changing to /signed. Not for bling, but for skills.

Just because everyone has the ability to farm doesn't make it fair. It means that everyone who isn't farming and isn't rich has to farm to get any significant amount of money.

If I'm dicking around a mission or area, I can make at least 2k an hour, more if I actually care about making money at all. It's not hard to buy skills.

Additionally the removal of loot scaling doesn't help actual casual players, most don't farm. Farmers like to think of themselves as casual players for some reason.

It is fair because everyone has the option to farm. Your logic is the same as saying HA isnt fair because everyone that isnt doing it isnt getting fame points and bambi emotes.


All casual players have the option of whether or not they want to farm. Believe it or not, a lot of them will start farming once they learn how to. Just because you dont doesnt mean that you represent casual players, you represent lazy players that cant be bothered to do anything in the game for themselves.


Prices going up on rare skin high end weapons wouldnt hurt casual players at all because you CAN complete each game easilly with unmodded non max weapons and pick up the max modded end game greens, on top of which you can just use the cheapest max armor.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

People Pls pay attention that the removal of loot scaling is not only to benefit farmers. People who play the game normally with 8/8 will reap benefits too.
That's all because of the "IDS" code. (Insta Death Scaling).

Lootscaling effects all of us at all times,even in a full team. I don't care much if they would keep the LS in HM, but pls get rid of the "IDS".

Fame is a reward specifically assigned to HA. Gold is not a reward specifically assigned to farming. The PvP equivalent would be giving excessive Balthazar faction gain to Zaishen Challenge.

Increasing the amount of money farmers make doesn't help casual players; if you wanted to help the casual crowd, you'd increase the amount of gold you get from everything, or at least from missions and quests. Sure there'd be inflation, but at least all the casual players could more easily afford the essentials.

But no, you want gold from farming to go up so you can feel good about yourself. Who gives a damn about everyone else playing, they should have to go farm like you if they want gold. Your logic that "nobody needs gold, but I want more gold for my own enjoyment" has some flaws.

/signed remove it, i loved 55ing in the old days....Big Part of GW died with that update.

When i started playing the game back in 2005 the economy issue didnt bother me as a new player i was too busy exploring and trying to beat the game.

However when i had to raise the breeze for my first set of 15k armour, it was only then i realised how poverty stricken i was.

My main beef about lootscaling was and still is, the fact that the drop rate for the more common drops was nerfed, and the ability of any player who needed money for skills dyes armour etc, was reduced across the board, overnight, this hit the newer players hard.

The economy may well have been shit then , but i dont recall anyone bitching half as much as they are now about it.
Anet should seriously consider getting shot of it, and while they are at it bring back the frozen chest and lost strong box...good times

Remove LS + IDS and everybody will have more money to spend, due to more drops. If you really want the vanity stuff, farming for gold now is easier to do again.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++

I Still don't get why all this discussion about farming is still here. Before LS nobody had problems with farming. Nowadays everybody points the finger and tells them to vanquish / dungeon / bear doa, etc.

If they ever remove LS + IDS:
a) People who normal play (missions, vanquish, elite-missions, hm, etc. ) will get more drops thus more money.

b) People have the option to farm and get some instant cash. (Instead of killing mobs, after mobs and only earning less then 1K).

c) The High end market will see a increase, but not as much as people would think. Supply + demand. And there's a lot of supply.

D) The lower end market with semi-rare skins but still req 9 will floorish a bit again. Since money is easier to come by, why not get that nice skin for your hero. Try selling stuff nowadays on ventari everything what isn't perfect is merched, and good semi rare skins are sold dirt cheap.(And people still don't buy the item, because they have less to spend >.>)

Just a random remark I need to get off my chest:

I can't really imagine how some people posting here about how little gold they make, play the game. Myself, I can't seem to make less than 5k in 2 hours worth of 8 people play, ever. Spending a night (3-4 hours tops) playing with guildies, just helping each other do missions, or dungeons or whatever, I rarely end up with less than +10k in my storage.

Selling a full inventory alone is an easy 2.5k, each and every time, and that's without accounting for special finds like runes and materials, which I tend to store until I have a spare moment to make up my mind about them.

STOP playing the "play the game" card all the time already. Pls let people play the game how they want to ehm kay.

Myself I have 10 Titles on my Ele, 7 on my warrior & LS on my paragon. Then I have 5 more dif chars. I got bored with HM vanquishes,Missions & Title Grinding. I now want to focus on getting some of my chars some nice 15K armor. How do earn money for it? By fastest means possible, thus farming. Farming is not a crime!

Let's say I want to have another fow armor, what would be options to attain it?
1) Do bear runs in doa and sell ambraces. (You can't do this whenever you like because it's pug depended).
2) Hope to get a lucky rare drop and sell it for a good sum of money
3) Farm ecto's + shards
How many fow + uw Clearances would it take to get both 105 or 120 materials?
Hell yes it would take a lot longer then farming it.
Quit judging people on farming. /end anti-farmers rant.

It's certainly not true that farming or doing vanquish / elite-missions / doa isn't profitable. Nobody is saying that. But without LS it would be even more profitable for both normal play + farming.

LS + IDS were set in motion vs Botters. If practically no botters are there ,why do we need to limit our income?