I say, yes and no.
Don't remove entirely, but up the drop rate by a noticeable significant percentage.
Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?
Operations
The Toe Tag
OOOO i got another awesome plan.Get rid of LS and let my char fart gold coins so i dont even have to move to make gold fast,YES Get to work Anet
Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Use a weapon crafter instead of being stingy and trying to pay other people little for their items. Or better yet, farm the stuff yourself.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eldin
Once again, I refer back to 2005. The Prophecies economy was perfect
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Eldin
You guys can't honestly expect us to conserve the money we make from beating a campaign and say "that's enough money 4evar lulz".
The Toe Tag
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eldin
You guys can't honestly expect us to conserve the money we make from beating a campaign and say "that's enough money 4evar lulz".
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bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Toe Tag
No but you dont want to redo all those missions more then once but would rather re zone to the same spot 100 times a day.
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Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
You need to farm to play the game? No you dont actually.
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123456
Eldin
I only farm when I need funds as well.
However, it is silly that LS was implemented to stop bots (AND HASN'T SUCCEEDED) and in turn makes farming incredibly boring for everyone, including "casual" farmers.
However, it is silly that LS was implemented to stop bots (AND HASN'T SUCCEEDED) and in turn makes farming incredibly boring for everyone, including "casual" farmers.
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eldin
However, it is silly that LS was implemented to stop bots (AND HASN'T SUCCEEDED) and in turn makes farming incredibly boring for everyone, including "casual" farmers.
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Exactly. We have like 10x more bots now at least then before LS was put in. If it doesnt do what it was meant to, and they now have a better alternative method, why not remove it?
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eldin
I have no hostility to the legitimate 55ers, but most bots 55. ANet has no problems killing player luxuries to kill bots (griffons, anyone?), so this would be an easy thing for them to pull off.
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Phineas
/signed
I love to stand in the middle of a pile of freshly dropped loot, be it white, blue purple or gold =P
I choose to farm, and I enjoy the satisfaction of setting out to get a nice drop and earning it myself but have not really played a great deal lately since, as others have said, bringing in 500g per trip is demoralizing. Death to LS.
I love to stand in the middle of a pile of freshly dropped loot, be it white, blue purple or gold =P
I choose to farm, and I enjoy the satisfaction of setting out to get a nice drop and earning it myself but have not really played a great deal lately since, as others have said, bringing in 500g per trip is demoralizing. Death to LS.
Hyper Cutter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Randvek
/signed, though I can think of plenty of instances in which things were nerfed to combat a problem, the problem was later removed, and the nerf remained.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ragnagard
Yeah.. then tell me how do you buy some of the new DAW items.
That isnt needed and just for ego... ok... Tell me how do you get an elite armor (starting at 40k). Tell me how do you get a Destroyer weapon (30k+), so i can put any of em at the HoM. By power trading my saurian bones? Playing the storyline...how much times? arent 1 in NM, 1 in HM, + some for the capture + guardian/protector just the tries we need? |
Hyprodimus Prime
/sign
Ive "taught" a lot of my noob friends how to make money. Power trading is the fastest ATM, but in order to do that, you need some money to invest with. Farming can get you that cash. Ive had a lot of problems helping these people because at first they will be all hyped they can actually solo something and make some cash. After the 3rd time, they notice they are only getting 3 drops in the entire 30 monster run... They have to learn new routes, get to different places, buy diff skills to modify the build etc. Its a hasel when money making isnt predictable. Life isnt predictable, I come to GW to have a sense of control of my surrounding. I want to be able to set cash goals for myself. Like say im saving up for a set of 60k armor, ill try and set a goal for 6k a day. How can I do that if Im getting 3-5 useless drops per area? Back in the day, I knew I made between 700 and 800gp per run at elona reach. If I wanted 6k, that meant a tangible 8 runs. Now if I want 6k, Im thinking, "ok, maybe 3k if i can find some people for a sanctum cay run, then 1k for a couple of Raptor runs, and if im lucky, 1 shard in FoW." You just cant count on any source of income anymore.
Ive "taught" a lot of my noob friends how to make money. Power trading is the fastest ATM, but in order to do that, you need some money to invest with. Farming can get you that cash. Ive had a lot of problems helping these people because at first they will be all hyped they can actually solo something and make some cash. After the 3rd time, they notice they are only getting 3 drops in the entire 30 monster run... They have to learn new routes, get to different places, buy diff skills to modify the build etc. Its a hasel when money making isnt predictable. Life isnt predictable, I come to GW to have a sense of control of my surrounding. I want to be able to set cash goals for myself. Like say im saving up for a set of 60k armor, ill try and set a goal for 6k a day. How can I do that if Im getting 3-5 useless drops per area? Back in the day, I knew I made between 700 and 800gp per run at elona reach. If I wanted 6k, that meant a tangible 8 runs. Now if I want 6k, Im thinking, "ok, maybe 3k if i can find some people for a sanctum cay run, then 1k for a couple of Raptor runs, and if im lucky, 1 shard in FoW." You just cant count on any source of income anymore.
Coolquest
/signed for great justice, the entire loot scale nerf never made any sense to me. The only people it effected were real people, unless I've been lied to on teh internets again and bots really get impatient after 100's of automated farming runs 
Gun Pierson
/Signed
I'm getting bored of chasing titles and playing the game over and over. I've been doning this since lootscaling. I miss the old days of griff farming (agro about 20 at a time, kephet is there now though), trolls, ethins,drakes, avicarra, ice imps, hydras and what not. It was so pleasant to get 2 gold drops,a purple and some other stuff in one run. Even though the golds were crapp most of the time. It just gave a rush.
If more golds are farmed, more upgrades will flood the market, so normally the price won't increase.
Farming can be so fun when you like it. Some more solo farming love would be more than welcome to me.
It would also stimulate to get some expeditions together to chase for req7-8 weapons.
I'm getting bored of chasing titles and playing the game over and over. I've been doning this since lootscaling. I miss the old days of griff farming (agro about 20 at a time, kephet is there now though), trolls, ethins,drakes, avicarra, ice imps, hydras and what not. It was so pleasant to get 2 gold drops,a purple and some other stuff in one run. Even though the golds were crapp most of the time. It just gave a rush.
If more golds are farmed, more upgrades will flood the market, so normally the price won't increase.
Farming can be so fun when you like it. Some more solo farming love would be more than welcome to me.
It would also stimulate to get some expeditions together to chase for req7-8 weapons.
angmar_nite
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Originally Posted by Coolquest
/signed for great justice, the entire loot scale nerf never made any sense to me. The only people it effected were real people, unless I've been lied to on teh internets again and bots really get impatient after 100's of automated farming runs
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Kerwyn Nasilan
/signed tbh i was not farming befor lootscaling but if it boosts up prices of stuff and makes farming as good as I have heard why not.
Creeping Carl
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Originally Posted by Operations
I say, yes and no.
Don't remove entirely, but up the drop rate by a noticeable significant percentage. |
LS is a nice way to inhibit the hardcore farmers but not affect regular gameplay. Too many people just don't understand this.
Arv X
once again, /notsigned
Most of the ppl reading this thread are STILL missing the issue with removal of lootscaling. Inflation! it would destroy the economy! you think the economy is bad now? wait till you see how it is when everyone and their mother has 300k to spend on the leet weapon they want. Yeah it'll be SO awesome !!!1!1!1111!oneone
Most of the ppl reading this thread are STILL missing the issue with removal of lootscaling. Inflation! it would destroy the economy! you think the economy is bad now? wait till you see how it is when everyone and their mother has 300k to spend on the leet weapon they want. Yeah it'll be SO awesome !!!1!1!1111!oneone
arcanemacabre
I say keep lootscaling, but double droprate in HM. Would give a better incentive to play in HM, and people farming in HM would get more drops than they are now - about equivalent to what they got before LS. You just have to work a little harder for it.
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arv X
once again, /notsigned
Most of the ppl reading this thread are STILL missing the issue with removal of lootscaling. Inflation! it would destroy the economy! you think the economy is bad now? wait till you see how it is when everyone and their mother has 300k to spend on the leet weapon they want. Yeah it'll be SO awesome !!!1!1!1111!oneone |
If you haven't noticed, that's already happened.
Scary
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arv X
once again, /notsigned
Most of the ppl reading this thread are STILL missing the issue with removal of lootscaling. Inflation! it would destroy the economy! you think the economy is bad now? wait till you see how it is when everyone and their mother has 300k to spend on the leet weapon they want. Yeah it'll be SO awesome !!!1!1!1111!oneone |
What weapons ar so expensive now ?? only the new skins, or the tormented ??
wich are down in prices in a very quick time with Ursan or by just let time to
past.
O yea FoW armor.. wasnt that so much more expensive before any LS. its just
the 3th of the price it was. Men I can come up with so many examples that
dropt the price after the LS.
LS will just give us more comon drops so there is no problem in that.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Scary
Must be the greatest nonsense I have ever read..
What weapons ar so expensive now ?? only the new skins, or the tormented ?? wich are down in prices in a very quick time with Ursan or by just let time to past. O yea FoW armor.. wasnt that so much more expensive before any LS. its just the 3th of the price it was. Men I can come up with so many examples that dropt the price after the LS. LS will just give us more comon drops so there is no problem in that. |
manitoba1073
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
You do realize that you're agreeing with him, right? Prices have dropped since LS - right. He's saying that if you remove LS, prices will go back up. More money coming in, and less rares as people farm areas with few rares and more common drops, means higher prices, period.
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wetsparks
/signed
get rid of that crap as fast as possible. rich people stayed rich, and it just made it harder for poor people to become rich. Like that set of 15k armor? To bad, before LS you could get money for that armor and materials by farming trolls for a weekend (I know, I bought my first set of 15k by doing it when jade was upwards of 800g per piece), now you have to play through some missions for 20th time, hope to get lucky, not get lucky and do it another 20 times to get the money for 15k armor.
get rid of that crap as fast as possible. rich people stayed rich, and it just made it harder for poor people to become rich. Like that set of 15k armor? To bad, before LS you could get money for that armor and materials by farming trolls for a weekend (I know, I bought my first set of 15k by doing it when jade was upwards of 800g per piece), now you have to play through some missions for 20th time, hope to get lucky, not get lucky and do it another 20 times to get the money for 15k armor.
Abedeus
/signed
Real people are too lazy to farm on Hard Mode all day to get cash. Bots don't care. LS = botfest.
Real people are too lazy to farm on Hard Mode all day to get cash. Bots don't care. LS = botfest.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Thats the thing that most of the ones that want to keep LS in. They think prices will go back up magically but it wont. There will be a large increase of supply of everything if LS is removed.
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Think about it this way: most of the hardcore farmers either quit (or at least say they quit), or they have moved on to farming high-end areas and/or group farming high-end areas with Ursan. If LS is removed, many of those will realize they will make more money quicker by going back to their trolls/vermin/hydras/whatever they used to farm. This means fewer and fewer high-end items coming in to the game, and more gold generated by merchanting whites/blues/collectibles. These farmers will posses more money in general, while the supply of high-end rares go down.
No, this won't happen immediately, but it will happen. Eventually, the rarest items will skyrocket in price, as only the hardcore farmers will be able (and willing) to afford. While the average, casual player will be unable to compete unless they farm, too. Also, with more gold circulating, the prices for any player-traded good [that doesn't already have an NPC trader] would slowly rise. This means things like dyes and Ecto would probably remain the same, but minipets, weapon mods, sweets/alcohol/party items, etc. will increase.
So no, there won't be a "large increase of everything" as rares, dyes, rare materials, etc are not affected by LS right now. It would only increase things people merch right now.
Master Sword Keeper
yes.... prices will go up. Therefore more money for players again and the economy will function like a well-oiled machine.
/signed.
remove LS period.
(unless you study business, dont say you know how a market works.)
/signed.
remove LS period.
(unless you study business, dont say you know how a market works.)
Chevy
If prices do go up and someone can't afford to buy the item that they are looking for, maybe they should go try and find the item by fighting for it. There you saved $X,000, and you got to play the game.
/signed
please remove LS
/signed
please remove LS
Burning Blade
why is it problem if item price increases? Right now most of gold drops are <10K and take hours to sell --> no incentive to sell to other players. Before LS, my gold in inventory fluctuated regularly because I traded a lot with other players. I have not sold any golds in the past few months. If it's r9, I keep for myself for later use; if it's anything higher than that, it will directly go to merchants after I salvage all the useful mods.
So /signed to remove LS to bring back a functional economy.
So /signed to remove LS to bring back a functional economy.
Buzzer
Personally I don't really care about this issue.
For the sake of the happiness of others though, I wouldn't mind seeing a reduction or removal of loot scaling. Not because I think loot scaling is bad, but to freshen the game up a bit.
For the sake of the happiness of others though, I wouldn't mind seeing a reduction or removal of loot scaling. Not because I think loot scaling is bad, but to freshen the game up a bit.
Jade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
Sorry you are (Wrong). Static IP=always the same IP address, all the time.
Dynamic IP on the other hand is what you have (most of the time) when you're connected from an ISP, they assign dynamically an IP address each time you connect to them (i.e. when your modem is switched on). RMT companies do not use this, but if their employees connect from the same internet cafe computers, it's almost the same. So they'll have to switch computers, which will be banned, until they run out of computers. And BAM! We win |
Fril Estelin
I think that I'm almost ready to /unsign due to the number of times that the pro-sign (which I was, but for different reasons) mention farming. Removing LS may well help casual gamers have a more enjoyable gameplay experience, but it seems it would make a lot of middle-class players jump into the high-end economy too easily. Well, with so many explanations contradicting themselves, I'm no longer sure of what I understand
I've tried to sketch elements of the economics situation in rigorous terms but stopped mid-way because I was too confused. I wonder if this is a case of no one really being able to understand the consequences of this change because of so many variables?
I've tried to sketch elements of the economics situation in rigorous terms but stopped mid-way because I was too confused. I wonder if this is a case of no one really being able to understand the consequences of this change because of so many variables?
Abedeus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets
/no sign
Lootscaling makes u farming in HM or in NM in a group. |
So... If you don't have HM or you can't go in NM (you don't have Ursan).. Go to hell? Okay, nice. I wonder how new players will be able to get money. Don't tell me, they are going to farm. How? On NM you get 1/8 of normal drops, lol.
Scary
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Magically? No. Gradually? Yes.
Think about it this way: most of the hardcore farmers either quit (or at least say they quit), or they have moved on to farming high-end areas and/or group farming high-end areas with Ursan. If LS is removed, many of those will realize they will make more money quicker by going back to their trolls/vermin/hydras/whatever they used to farm. This means fewer and fewer high-end items coming in to the game, and more gold generated by merchanting whites/blues/collectibles. These farmers will posses more money in general, while the supply of high-end rares go down. No, this won't happen immediately, but it will happen. Eventually, the rarest items will skyrocket in price, as only the hardcore farmers will be able (and willing) to afford. While the average, casual player will be unable to compete unless they farm, too. Also, with more gold circulating, the prices for any player-traded good [that doesn't already have an NPC trader] would slowly rise. This means things like dyes and Ecto would probably remain the same, but minipets, weapon mods, sweets/alcohol/party items, etc. will increase. So no, there won't be a "large increase of everything" as rares, dyes, rare materials, etc are not affected by LS right now. It would only increase things people merch right now. |
Quote:
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/no sign Lootscaling makes u farming in HM or in NM in a group. |
it is.
NO LS. Just means More fun during exploring.
The thing is .. most of the (NOT SIGNED) people are people who have
something against farming.
Farming on it self by players who like farming and wanna fill their GW time with
selling things and earn a lot of mony.. I dont see any harm in that.
If they have pleassure in doin that.. let them.
Me !! Im somebody who really like to explore with Hero and pets in NM.
As yesturday I roamt for almost 4 hours into the Jungle to ToA.. just for fun.
But with 4 hours wandering around, killing all things that comes in my way.
and even after all that my inventory was hardly full.
Is that what we want as a almost NOT farming PvE player. So dont say LS
is a good thing.
Ye its a good thing that they want to prevent farmers/bots who use there
things to sell it for real mony.
But don't compare PvE players. even players who like to farm couse they like
to sell and wanna get rich INGAME, with bots or farmers who farm for RM.
tmakinen
Ok, there seems to be some confusion about what will happen if LS is lifted. Let's consider the effects one item at a time.
Fixed price items (from a merchant) will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the given amount of money.
Collector weapons and armor will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the collectable drops.
Common crafting materials will become effectively cheaper because the inflation of money is offset by greater production of materials.
Standard armor, weapons and consumables will become effectively cheaper (a combination of fixed price and common materials effects).
Rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same or a bit lower value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them (the decrease being caused by expert salvage from common drops).
Prestige armor and other items requiring rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but less expensive by playing time needed to acquire them.
Vanity items will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them.
People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players.
People with lots of ecto will stay as rich as before relative to other players.
Poor people will have better chances at becoming rich people.
All things considered, heck /signed.
Fixed price items (from a merchant) will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the given amount of money.
Collector weapons and armor will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the collectable drops.
Common crafting materials will become effectively cheaper because the inflation of money is offset by greater production of materials.
Standard armor, weapons and consumables will become effectively cheaper (a combination of fixed price and common materials effects).
Rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same or a bit lower value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them (the decrease being caused by expert salvage from common drops).
Prestige armor and other items requiring rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but less expensive by playing time needed to acquire them.
Vanity items will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them.
People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players.
People with lots of ecto will stay as rich as before relative to other players.
Poor people will have better chances at becoming rich people.
All things considered, heck /signed.
tmakinen
Also, I call BS on ANet's official party line of enforcing LS as means for preventing the gamer population from segregating into 'haves' and 'have-nots' *cough* mini polar bear *cough*
mr_groovy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
Ok, there seems to be some confusion about what will happen if LS is lifted. Let's consider the effects one item at a time.
Fixed price items (from a merchant) will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the given amount of money. Collector weapons and armor will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the collectable drops. Common crafting materials will become effectively cheaper because the inflation of money is offset by greater production of materials. Standard armor, weapons and consumables will become effectively cheaper (a combination of fixed price and common materials effects). Rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same or a bit lower value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them (the decrease being caused by expert salvage from common drops). Prestige armor and other items requiring rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but less expensive by playing time needed to acquire them. Vanity items will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them. People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players. People with lots of ecto will stay as rich as before relative to other players. Poor people will have better chances at becoming rich people. All things considered, heck /signed. |
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
Ok, there seems to be some confusion about what will happen if LS is lifted. Let's consider the effects one item at a time.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
Fixed price items (from a merchant) will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the given amount of money.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
Collector weapons and armor will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the collectable drops.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Common crafting materials will become effectively cheaper because the inflation of money is offset by greater production of materials.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Standard armor, weapons and consumables will become effectively cheaper (a combination of fixed price and common materials effects).
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same or a bit lower value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them (the decrease being caused by expert salvage from common drops).
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Prestige armor and other items requiring rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but less expensive by playing time needed to acquire them.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Vanity items will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players.
People with lots of ecto will stay as rich as before relative to other players. Poor people will have better chances at becoming rich people. |
All things considered, the only people who will benefit from the removal of LS are solo farmers. Well, that and your common materials argument. Everything else is a negative for those who don't solo farm. Convince me otherwise, or I'm afraid I will remain /notsigned.
O Nuxtofulakas
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Scary
Just a other point of view I guess.
Farming on it self by players who like farming and wanna fill their GW time with selling things and earn a lot of mony.. I dont see any harm in that. If they have pleassure in doin that.. let them. . |
Farming section in this site is full of working builds, maps, guides, everything a farmer needs NOW to farm for rares/greens/ectos/collectables etc.
No-one sees any harm in that...farmers have all they need since they like farming...and LS is not affecting these drops. Period
..but they are not satisfied, they want more and more ingame money and the funny thing is they want everything the easy way...
You say it is pleasure for them...i accept it.
But what about the pleasure of the players who don't want to farm 24/7?
Why should i pay "12k" for ecto when i can get it now for 4.5k (yes this number existed in the past- i made my obsi armor paying ecto 9k/ea on average)
Why should i farm all day to pay for inflated prices cause no-life farmers farm stupid trolls all day and bring easy cash into the economy?
Because when LS is removed tons of gold will enter into the economy pumping up the prices of everything you see in trade channel.
The game after 3 years has found it's stability.
No reason to destroy it now
Bot like behaviour cannot be rewarded by Anet