/unsigned
I get plenty of loot, solo. Without lootscaling I'd make 50k an hour just selling to a merchant. 50k that wouldn't be worth anything.
Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?
Gli
Roo Ella
/signed
I miss the old fun of farming for something I really wan't and when lootscalling came in it made it even harder
for the "average player" just so they could try and stop bots
WELL it didn't work did it? was just as many running around even lately in Shing Jea all the eles.
Now there trying this RTM thingy lets hope this is sucesfull I hope it is and they change Lootscaling.
I miss the old fun of farming for something I really wan't and when lootscalling came in it made it even harder
for the "average player" just so they could try and stop bots
WELL it didn't work did it? was just as many running around even lately in Shing Jea all the eles.
Now there trying this RTM thingy lets hope this is sucesfull I hope it is and they change Lootscaling.
Jetdoc
I highly doubt the new "policy" will do anything to deter gold sellers. As a result, I'm pretty sure any hopes of removing loot scaling are just those...hopes.
fog_of_redoubt
/signed
To all of you saying LS is better for new players I say BS. Prove it. I have.
I have been playing on my Primary account since the beta weekends. I have my inventory full 1000k and 12 character slots full 100k. I dont "need" any money. Dont really buy vanity weapons or armor ... And I still farm because it is what I like to do.
But just for grins, and taking advantage of CompUSA going out of business sale and Targets 9.99 EotN. I have started a new secondary account. I have not tranfered ANY money, runes, mods, weapons, insignias, etc. I have 5 characters that are between lvl 10-14. I have not bought ANYTHING other than ident and salvage kits.
I have not been able to buy armor/runes/insignias to properly equip myself. I was able to go to EotN (at lvl 10), to grab some lvl 20 Heros to use instead of Henchies, and I cant equip them with runes and insignias.
The point is, that the game IS NOT FUN like this. I have played it when money was easy to make, and with my primary account I dont need money, so it contimues to be somewhat fun.
But my Secondary account is like any other "new" player. It just isnt fun to have to scrape by... To not be able to afford an energy storage minor for your Ele, or not be able to afford a minor Vig for your Warrior.
So you can say all you want that this is better for the "new" players, but I call BS. I am playing both extremes, and it isn't better at all.
To all of you saying LS is better for new players I say BS. Prove it. I have.
I have been playing on my Primary account since the beta weekends. I have my inventory full 1000k and 12 character slots full 100k. I dont "need" any money. Dont really buy vanity weapons or armor ... And I still farm because it is what I like to do.
But just for grins, and taking advantage of CompUSA going out of business sale and Targets 9.99 EotN. I have started a new secondary account. I have not tranfered ANY money, runes, mods, weapons, insignias, etc. I have 5 characters that are between lvl 10-14. I have not bought ANYTHING other than ident and salvage kits.
I have not been able to buy armor/runes/insignias to properly equip myself. I was able to go to EotN (at lvl 10), to grab some lvl 20 Heros to use instead of Henchies, and I cant equip them with runes and insignias.
The point is, that the game IS NOT FUN like this. I have played it when money was easy to make, and with my primary account I dont need money, so it contimues to be somewhat fun.
But my Secondary account is like any other "new" player. It just isnt fun to have to scrape by... To not be able to afford an energy storage minor for your Ele, or not be able to afford a minor Vig for your Warrior.
So you can say all you want that this is better for the "new" players, but I call BS. I am playing both extremes, and it isn't better at all.
Nightow
LS came, bots still existed.
Give this new update a month or two and I would not be surprised to see bots still roaming in GW1. Maybe less bots, yes but bots none the less.
As most EULA abiding players would agree, bots are bad period but they are like cockroaches. As long as there is still interest in GW1, there will be bots.
Give this new update a month or two and I would not be surprised to see bots still roaming in GW1. Maybe less bots, yes but bots none the less.
As most EULA abiding players would agree, bots are bad period but they are like cockroaches. As long as there is still interest in GW1, there will be bots.
reetkever
Lootscaling has no point other to keep the bots (and players) from getting cash.
Now that there are no more bots, the whole purpose of the scaling is gone (Except for players becoming rich... So what if that happens?)
I have never supported the lootscaling and now that it's purpose is gone it should really go in my opinion.
So, /signed.
Now that there are no more bots, the whole purpose of the scaling is gone (Except for players becoming rich... So what if that happens?)
I have never supported the lootscaling and now that it's purpose is gone it should really go in my opinion.
So, /signed.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
You really think 80-90% of gold sites are going to be out of business?
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And to those that suggest "LS shall stay and people should farm ... like I do". I hope you realise that there are other ways to play the game than farming, but they're not "rentable" (so to say) because of LS.
CyberMesh0
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nightow
LS came, bots exploded.
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mr_groovy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
/unsigned
I get plenty of loot, solo. Without lootscaling I'd make 50k an hour just selling to a merchant. 50k that wouldn't be worth anything. |
1 Normal armor + Elite armor have a fixed price.
2 Skill points are 1K each.
3 Consumables have a fixed price.
4 Runes + Insignia's now have a steady price (And this will only change drastically if new armor is added to the game, which is highly wishful thinking).
As because of the sudden influx Rare items becoming more expensive. Most people all ready have all the rare items they want, and the market is flooded with perfect rares. This is doubtfull to rise soon. Only the High ballers will perhaps see an increase in prices. (Rare mini's, Zaishen Chest drops, HOH drops)
Fay Vert
260 posts in 1/2 a day.
Drop the loot nerf
Nuff said
Drop the loot nerf
Nuff said
Clarissa F
Let's see how this reduces the bots. Do you really think the people who program the bots are dumb enough not to adapt? They'll find another end route and get their gold. Anet is just keeping up in the fight against bots. Neither this nor any other method is going to stop gold farming bots, or even cut them down 80%.
/unsigned. I can see it now. After a month of no loot scaling: "WTS purple 15^50 12 Marks ivory bow.... 50k." A bit extreme, but you get the idea.
/unsigned. I can see it now. After a month of no loot scaling: "WTS purple 15^50 12 Marks ivory bow.... 50k." A bit extreme, but you get the idea.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
And to those that suggest "LS shall stay and people should farm ... like I do". I hope you realise that there are other ways to play the game than farming, but they're not "rentable" (so to say) because of LS.
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JeniM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CyberMesh0
Corrected it for you. Anet shot themselves in the foot, like I mentioned elsewhere. If lazy people don't have an easy way to make gold, they turn to the gold companies. Earning gold took longer, so the gold companies bought more bot accounts, and needed to raise the price of gold. More people buy gold now too- so either way, the gold companies win.
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Personally i think Anet got a cut off the gold selling sites for the loots scaling deal
Nevin
/signed
For an altered form of loot scaling which can benefit the modest gamer.
For an altered form of loot scaling which can benefit the modest gamer.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Which other ways to play are you talking about and how are they affected by lootscaling? Not trying to be a wise-ass here, I'm really only familiar with 2 basic ways to play: 1) 'normal' full party play, which is unaffected by lootscaling and 2) farming, which works perfectly fine if you ask me.
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Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
Not worth anything? Tired of repeating myself and others but:
1 Normal armor + Elite armor have a fixed price. 2 Skill points are 1K each. 3 Consumables have a fixed price. 4 Runes + Insignia's now have a steady price (And this will only change drastically if new armor is added to the game, which is highly wishful thinking). |
It's you who doesn't get it. If I make 50k per hour, that gold wouldn't be worth anything because I can't even spend it on those things you mention. A person only needs so many armors, skill points, consumables or runes. (Or none at all in the case of consumables, meh.) If I could buy an elite armor every 2 hours, what the hell do I do after I got them all?
Zahr Dalsk
Remove Loot Scaling > Easy Gold For Players > No Need For Bots > Much Less Gold Selling
Who cares? Elite Armour will still cost the same and so be easier to get.
As for getting max items, maybe more people will be encouraged to buy the BMP, which means more business for ArenaNet. But no loot scaling would mean more items anyways, so max golds would be easier to get just by farming.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clarissa F
I can see it now. After a month of no loot scaling: "WTS purple 15^50 12 Marks ivory bow.... 50k." A bit extreme, but you get the idea.
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As for getting max items, maybe more people will be encouraged to buy the BMP, which means more business for ArenaNet. But no loot scaling would mean more items anyways, so max golds would be easier to get just by farming.
Diddy bow
Yep is needs to go, A-net didnt realise loot scaleng was a god send for the old bots, im sure you can understand why...
JeniM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nevin
/signed
For an altered form of loot scaling which can benefit the modest gamer. |
(For people that are about to say "for fun, why else would you play a game" the answers here to save space; When I play a game I like to progress through it, once you hit level 20 the only progress you can make is in the gold you make and the titles you get. Loot scaling removes this progress and thus my motivation to play)
Nightow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
I was more thinking of "playing the game", following the storyline (for the Nth time of course)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
completing missions, bonuses and quests, exploring areas, etc.
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JeniM
as you only get rewards for missions once i don't really see how "play the storyline" applies. Do you really want to do the same mission you know off by heart yet again?
mr_groovy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Yes... fixed prices which seem perfectly fine to me in the light of how lootscaling works.
It's you who doesn't get it. If I make 50k per hour, that gold wouldn't be worth anything because I can't even spend it on those things you mention. A person only needs so many armors, skill points, consumables or runes. (Or none at all in the case of consumables, meh.) If I could buy an elite armor every 2 hours, what the hell do I do after I got them all? |
Also 50K per hour from just merching stuff? Isn't that a bit optimistic? I remember making money 3 to 4K on an UW run and 7Kish on a fow run, from merching (this excludes golds + rare mats). Which would be around 20K a hour, with the benefit of getting some nice drops.
(Speaking of which did a E/me UW run earlier today made a whopping 800gp, and no globs
).
reetkever
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clarissa F
/unsigned. I can see it now. After a month of no loot scaling: "WTS purple 15^50 12 Marks ivory bow.... 50k." A bit extreme, but you get the idea.
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What makes you think prices will rise after loot scaling is gone? The same amount of golds still drop (Exemption list). People have more cash to spend, but I doupt they want to spend it on non-rare weapons. Sellers will still have to lower their prices in order to sell their unwanted weapon.
rare weapon skinned-weapons might go up a bit, but they were high to begin with, and with the cash we can get by farming without loot scaling, affording them won't be a problem.
Fact is that the economy is crap these days, and before the loot scaling and exemption list came, the economy was good. Maybe we helped the economy so far to hell that it can't be fixed... But it never hurts to try since it can't get much worse, either.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nightow
some players are looking for a more steady income of plat.
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More seriously, as I said before, I'm not a hard pro-take-back-LS, but so far I haven't read very convincing arguments against it, apart from the one saying that it may impact the economy in the wrong way. And even on this, I'm not sure.
Sanakthe Victus
Only thing I hope for now is that a GW DEV is watching this thread to elaborate with us.
Creeping Carl
Did everyone forget one of the reasons LS was put in? It wasnt just to discourage botting, it was to narrow the bridge between casual player and the hardcore farmer. The wealth discrepancy without LS would be even worse.
JeniM
the economy can get worse?
Whens the last time a "Dev" did more than lurking on these threads in "invisible mode"????
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sanakthe Victus
Only thing I hope for now is that a GW DEV is watching this thread to elaborate with us.
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The Fox
/signed BUT Loot Scaling still wouldn't be as good as just a general increase in drops.
In a nutshell it's necessary to increase drop rate as less gold enters the game or demand could rise for gold beyond normal and even potentially offset the gain from the update, which could creat MORE bots than before. For more details go to this treat.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0268457&page=6
In a nutshell it's necessary to increase drop rate as less gold enters the game or demand could rise for gold beyond normal and even potentially offset the gain from the update, which could creat MORE bots than before. For more details go to this treat.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0268457&page=6
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
Did everyone forget one of the reasons LS was put in? It wasnt just to discourage botting, it was to narrow the bridge between casual player and the hardcore farmer. The wealth discrepancy without LS would be even worse.
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http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Loot#Loot_scaling
Quote:
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Without loot scaling, solo farmers received every loot drop, whereas people who played in a party received only a fraction of loot drops. Thus, solo farmers received up to eight times as much loot for killing the same group of monsters. With loot scaling in place, solo farmers still get more loot than people who play in parties, but the gap is less severe than it was before. It is impossible to quantify precisely how much less because it depends on the type of loot farmed and involves some randomness, but here are some rough guidelines: * People who play in normal size parties, including parties of heroes and henchman, will see no difference at all from loot scaling. At the same time, they will notice that normal mode is now much easier to farm, and that the introduction of Hard Mode provides a place they can play where the loot is better than ever before. Thus, people who play the game primarily in parties will simply make more money than they previously did. * People who periodically enjoy farming solo (with no heroes or henchmen) but are casual about it are also likely to see an improvement. They'll find that solo farming is much easier than it was before, because monsters don't have the anti-farming AI that they used to have, and because the game no longer prevents players from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over. Many types of builds that didn't work in the past, or that haven't been effective since the earliest days of Guild Wars, can now be used for solo farming. Thus, casual farmers will find the game much easier to farm than it was before, and that they can earn more money than before even with loot scaling in place. * People who were advanced solo farmers and who were earning vastly more money through solo farming than through playing the game normally will see the full effect of loot scaling. They will earn less gold and common loot from solo farming than they did in the past. The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness, so while the difference is not easy to quantify, it is by no means a factor of eight. Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party. While gold and common loot are thus reduced for these players by loot scaling, certain other types of loot are completely unaffected. For example, Skill Tomes are completely unaffected by loot scaling, so they still drop eight times as frequently for solo farmers than they do for people who play in parties. Thus, advanced solo farmers will find that certain types of farming are still extremely productive for them, but they may have to change what and where they farm if they want to earn as much money as they did before. |
reetkever
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
Did everyone forget one of the reasons LS was put in? It wasnt just to discourage botting, it was to narrow the bridge between casual player and the hardcore farmer. The wealth discrepancy without LS would be even worse.
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Loot scaling didn't change this at all.
Before the loot scaling:
Everyone can become rich if he/she wants. He/she just has to farm for a little while (Yes I know, 'I dont wannah work in mah game cause if i dont spent evry minut on the game i will die but i still want perfekt wepons'. Well nothing is free. Rare weapons are rare for a reason. If everyone could have them without doing something for them, they'd be as rare as a Raven Staff in the Shiverpeaks.
After the loot scaling:
Nobody can farm as much as before so everyone becomes poor. Only the people that had millions of Platinum still remain rich (Since ecto price rose after the Loot Scaling. Their stacks became worth lots more.)
Even if one wanted to farm, no more would drop than from just playing the game.
Before loot scaling, we at least had the CHOICE to work for cash, now we are forced with low drop rates, crappy chest drops and invisible party members stealing our drops when solo-ing.
JeniM
Like the bit in Gaile's speech- People who were advanced solo farmers and who were earning vastly more money through solo farming than through playing the game normally will see the full effect of loot scaling
Theres something other than farming to do after your lvl 20 and finish the campaign???
also how does this help the casual gamer and hurt the hardcore player? The hardcore player is still spending more time online than the casual and is thus still making more gold. All thats changed is you have to play MORE if you want to buy something from an NPC
So loot scaling was made to help the casual player but it just helped
-hardcore players
-bots
-the gold selling companys
talk about one step forward and 500 steps back
Theres something other than farming to do after your lvl 20 and finish the campaign???
also how does this help the casual gamer and hurt the hardcore player? The hardcore player is still spending more time online than the casual and is thus still making more gold. All thats changed is you have to play MORE if you want to buy something from an NPC
So loot scaling was made to help the casual player but it just helped
-hardcore players
-bots
-the gold selling companys
talk about one step forward and 500 steps back
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
There you go, you just awnsered your own question. If a casual player can spend that time to get some "Basic" vanity stuff, it leaves him/ her time to other stuff to do.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
Also 50K per hour from just merching stuff? Isn't that a bit optimistic? I remember making money 3 to 4K on an UW run and 7Kish on a fow run, from merching (this excludes golds + rare mats). Which would be around 20K a hour, with the benefit of getting some nice drops.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
(Speaking of which did a E/me UW run earlier today made a whopping 800gp, and no globs
). |
reetkever
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
But isn't getting 'basic' vanity stuff like most elite armors still just as easy for casual players who don't farm at all as it ever was? If players moving through the game don't get the same money I got when I started 2.5 years ago, that's a whole different issue than lootscaling.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Don't forget, we have Hard Mode now, where it takes me just a few minutes to kill 50+ level 24 creatures. Imagine the excessive income if they ALL dropped something appropriate to their level. I'd have to abort some farm runs one quarter of the way in due to all 40 free spaces filled up.
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Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JeniM
Theres something other than farming to do after your lvl 20 and finish the campaign???
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I mentioned Gaile's message to talk about the original reason stated for LS. Now we all know it didn't go exactly as planned.
Anyway, I'll stop here because I'm no longer producing anything interesting in this thread. As I said and many said before: possibly(probably) /signed, provided RMT is off our game.
Creeping Carl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
That's not what I get from Gaile's original comment, put in the unofficial GWiki:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Loot#Loot_scaling |
Isnt that basically narrowing the gap between casual and hardcore? How does that contradict what I said?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Loot scaling didn't change this at all.
Before the loot scaling: Everyone can become rich if he/she wants. He/she just has to farm for a little while (Yes I know, 'I dont wannah work in mah game cause if i dont spent evry minut on the game i will die but i still want perfekt wepons'. Well nothing is free. Rare weapons are rare for a reason. If everyone could have them without doing something for them, they'd be as rare as a Raven Staff in the Shiverpeaks. After the loot scaling: Nobody can farm as much as before so everyone becomes poor. Only the people that had millions of Platinum still remain rich (Since ecto price rose after the Loot Scaling. Their stacks became worth lots more.) Even if one wanted to farm, no more would drop than from just playing the game. Before loot scaling, we at least had the CHOICE to work for cash, now we are forced with low drop rates, crappy chest drops and invisible party members stealing our drops when solo-ing. |
As I said, LS is to narrow the wealth discrepancy. You might not like the method being used but I can't see how anyone can argue that's the intention.
reetkever
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
Quests? Protector? Vanquish? Dungeons? Titles? And not to mention UW,FoW,DoA and ... playing for fun!! (there have been a few ideas here and there in GWG). The simple fact of replaying Hell's Precipice with a few friends last week-end gave me a lot of fun, without any real "material" rewards (gold or loot).
I mentioned Gaile's message to talk about the original reason stated for LS. Now we all know it didn't go exactly as planned. Anyway, I'll stop here because I'm no longer producing anything interesting in this thread. As I said and many said before: possibly(probably) /signed, provided RMT is off our game. |
It would just give players more choice in what they do. 2 years ago Guild Wars had loads of stuff to do that is nerfed/impossible now... All thanks to the bots and the countermeasures for them...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
I dont understand. Isnt what I said a basic summary of what Gaile said? She said that normal play in a team and casual farmers will see the same or slight improvement in their earnings while the hardcore farmers are the ones who will get "nerfed" the most.
Isnt that basically narrowing the gap between casual and hardcore? How does that contradict what I said? |
Loot scaling didn't nerf hardcore farmers - it helped them. The ones who get nailed by loot scaling the most are the casual players, who are now doomed to STAY poor.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
Your logic makes no sense. If all it takes for casual players to be rich is to just "farm more" then how would they be casual players at all? How would they even come close to the level of wealth as the hardcore farmers?
As I said, LS is to narrow the wealth discrepancy. You might not like the method being used but I can't see how anyone can argue that's the intention. |
In my opinion, if someone does a few trolls runs a day just to buy what he needs, it's still a casual player. As long as he/she doesn't spend 20 hours a day farming, becoming a hardcore farmer, it's fine.
A casual player is just someone playing the game and having fun, instead of only farming. Well, farming is fun once in a while. You get a great feeling of accomplishment and a good reward so you can buy a skill or dye your armor without being afraid you might get in trouble for being poor later (This is without loot scaling of course).
Anyway, poor people stayed poor thanks to LS, and rich people got even richer since their ecto stacks increased in price for a while (It's finally low again, though).
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
I dont understand. Isnt what I said a basic summary of what Gaile said? She said that normal play in a team and casual farmers will see the same or slight improvement in their earnings while the hardcore farmers are the ones who will get "nerfed" the most.
Isnt that basically narrowing the gap between casual and hardcore? How does that contradict what I said? |
1) Gaile splitted hardcore (if you understand "farmer" as harcore and leave the "casual farmer" aside) into 2 categories, with the 2nd one being targetted at RMT;
2) the intention never was to narrow the gap, and her words do not imply that in the most general sense:
2a) in the 3 categories she quote, the casual is number 1 and they aim that these guys should not be affected
2b) casual farmer would have improve, thus increasing the gap with category 1
2c) harcore farmer would become inefficient, which is narrowing the gap, but only in this case.
But that's not the point here, we won't change the past, I just wanted this to be reminded to everyone (we may have misunderstood each other by the way!).
Creeping Carl
*sigh* You people are just picking and choosing what you want to see. How is Gailes statement NOT implying that it was to narrow the bridge of weath between casual and hardcore?
However you want to nitpick the labels, the intention was very clear. At least to the rational minded. But I'll bow out now since this subject is always a powder keg for some of you folks.
However you want to nitpick the labels, the intention was very clear. At least to the rational minded. But I'll bow out now since this subject is always a powder keg for some of you folks.
reetkever
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
*sigh* You people are just picking and choosing what you want to see. How is Gailes statement NOT implying that it was to narrow the bridge of weath between casual and hardcore?
However you want to nitpick the labels, the intention was very clear. At least to the rational minded. But I'll bow out now since this subject is always a powder keg for some of you folks. |
Again, lootscaling does not narrow the bridge of wealth between casual and hardcore, it widens it.
And if A-Net really wanted to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor, they wouldn't come with stuff like the Polar Bear and only make it available to like 10 people in the game.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Back in my noob days, I still had to farm for 15K armor, even though I mostly did the storyline. Even though I was a casual player, I still needed to farm for stuff. Now it's the same case, except farming is impossible (Well it's possible, but without getting more drops).
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
HM is not for Casual Players and is epic fail overall. And if needed, Loot Scaling could still apply to HM (At least to some extend).
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