Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

Nice: I insult you and then bow out. Have a good night gentleman (no capital sir!)

(can you see the intention behind my words in your crystal ball of rationality? /end of sarcasm/ )

Either way she meant it, look at it logically.

The rich players are already rich. They can maintain this wealth by trading with each other for items far beyond the price range of most players.

The poor players now have no way to make money. They will remain poor, unless they buy gold from an asian gold selling website.

Therefore, there is not merely a gap between rich and poor, there is now a gaping chasm thanks to Loot Scaling. And because the only way for a poor player to gain a notable amount of money is by buying online gold, it simply helps the gold selling bots.

Oh yeah, that was kinda the whole excuse for that.

They'd kinda HAVE to remove it now or inplicitly admit their entire design philosophy is completely inept and that all stated reasons for unpopular design decisions are total baloney.

I bet they choose the latter.

Hey, guys, let's not forget who keeps the game alive. Hardcore players buy all of the expacs and campaigns, hardcore players farm and keep the game alive. etc...

While, on the other hand, most casual gamers just buy one of the campaigns, play till they are bored and quit.

Well I guess it depends on your drops, what you do during the storyline and which campaign you start in. I still have problems buying armor without getting cash from my storage, though. I still need to farm in order to fully equip my character with the things he absolutely needs.

Well HM was made around the Loot Scaling, and in my opinion, removing the loot scaling in HM will be a bit too much. I mean, HM already has better quality drops, too. In my opinion they should still decrease drops a bit when farming in HM.

Well, I play all the time, bought all campaigns and expansion and BMP, and loot scaling hurts me. So I guess loot scaling should go, by your own thoughts of who we should care about

/not signed

Loot scaling should have been in the game since the very beginning, it's the proper way of game design. It's just the nerf itself that hurt a lot of players, it was taking away from them something they enjoyed.

Of course I abused the fact it didn't exist for the first 2 years and made some good money from it. I enjoyed getting full inventory of drops in 5 minutes of farming, but I've always felt it's just wrong.

The game was basically Farm Wars, people who didn't solofarm were always very poor and the farmers were competing in the market over the best items and drove the prices completely out of reach of people who didn't solofarm.

Now just imagine hm raptor farm without loot scaling = nuke ~30 raptors every 2 minutes, each of them drops something of average worth 40g = 35k+ hard cash from just merchanting junk drops and cash drops themselves! (it's around 6-8k on average now with lootscaling, still far better than playing with a full group will get)

It wouldn't help the economy at all, what's unsellable would remain unsellable, only the prices of stuff in demand would skyrocket. However it would help the chestrunners to get their lockpicks worth of selling perfect mods and occassional rare skins to people.

Simply removing LS is totally wrong. But changes could be made for it to work better:
*reduce LS effect by half in Normal Mode - change that wouldn't hurt, some more money in the economy would be actually good, this would make some old farms viable, for those who enjoy solofarm;
*remove Gold Items from the exempt from LS list in Hard Mode - ability to farm 10-15 golds per hour is just ridiculous, the main factor that made them worthless.

Please remember that the reason given by Anet for the implementation of Loot Scaling was not primarily because of RMT Gold Farmers. Anet stated they found it economically unbalancing that a farmer could earn upwards of 10+ times more gold than a player playing the game normally. It is currently true that a farmer can out earn a normal player - as it should be - but loot scaling has reduced that income gap. If Anet wants to stick to their strategy of constraining the output of farming versus normal play, they will have to replace loot scaling with some other method of reducing drops. Be careful what you wish for.

Remember that Loot scaling was implemented simultaneously with the elimination of the Anti-Farming Code (AFC). AFC controlled the rate of earning between farming and normal play style by eliminating high-value (e.g., gold, green, etc.) drops items upon repeated entry into a zone. Since the elimination of AFC / implementation of loot scaling was also made simultaneously with the introduction of Hard Mode, a return to AFC would mean lockpicks and Tomes would be added to the list of items subject to AFC.

Previously, the AFC kept me from doing any farming. By the time I got a handle on a farming run (say 5-6 attempts), all drops were reduced to low value white items. Worse, this farming tag followed me around and prevented that character from getting good drops anywhere until I had played “normally” for some period of time. Now, I can take my time perfecting a run. Sometimes I get into farming Norn points or Asura points by repeating a zone. A return to AFC would mean all people farming Norn, Asura, SS or LB repeatedly would see their drops dry up to nothing whether they were in a full group or not.

Also, not everything about the economy in the AFC/pre-Loot Scaling days was wonderful. Because it was far easier for farmers to earn gold, but more difficult to get good drops, there was a high degree of price inflation. The average green or gold item cost a lot more back then than it does today, and we would return directionally to this. Runes, insignias, ectos, cores, etc, - all of these items will increase in price and become harder to acquire. The player playing “normally,” however will have the same amount of money while non-fixed price items will become more expensive. Arguments that a removal of loot scaling will help “casual players” are generally unsupported by what has happened since the implementation of loot scaling and AFC removal.

I see there is a lot of nostalgia for the old system, but it is a serious mistake to go back.

Allow me to mention that it didn't help hardcore farmers.
They were making money but not as fast as they used to before LS... they are hardcore remember?

It's impossible to earn the same gold with a hardcore farmer no matter if there is LS or not. Period So the gap between hardcore and casual will always increase. LS was a solution to slow down the gap increase.

If the casual player farms "10" times/day and gets "10k" the hardcore player farms "100" times/day and gets "100k". Multiply this random number x24/7 and tell us what you get and if the gap is increasing or not... so LS was definitely towards the right direction.

What makes you think that price of ecto won't increase if LS is removed?
drop rate will be the same but market will be inflated with more cash, so "WTB ectos 12k/ea" messages will appear again

Finally i believe anet will think logically and won't give an HUGE incentive to RMTs to break latest measures against em...

hmm. I composed my original thoughts a few hours ago, and I see now that Gaile's original quote has been put on the site, and is a little different than I remember.

She did not say the gap was 10+. Rather, she said 8 times. She did not say the gap "economically unbalanced" the game. Nor, however, did she say anything about RMT or botting.

What she mentioned was that there was a gap and that Loot scaling would have the effect of closing that gap.

I still stand by the main arguments in my post above, my memory of Anet's reasons was not precise.

Did you know that someone who has played GW for 2.5 years with every campaign and 7+ characters and extreme devotion to the game CAN NOT MAKE MONEY, even if he plays 5+ hours a day, because...

1) Ursan has taken away all his farming opportunities, and he's too low a rank to join them?

2) He doesn't have a 55/SS?

3) All the good farming spots suck nowadays (griffons, trolls, ettins)?

So there. All your "you gotta be hardcore to make money too bad you casual players don't need money" thing is all a bunch of lies because even hardcore players can not make money that easily.

Spanning all 7 chars of mine I probably have 75k total right now.

A lot of the posts here aren't saying to drop it though. Regardless of the gap between comfortable and insane, loot scaling is a HUGE blow to the botters. The amount of sold gold they inject into the economy is DRAMATICALLY reduced with loot scaling, and that's a good thing. IP banning is a feeble wrist-slap in comparison.

Keep it.

/notsigned

Not really. A bot, which can farm 24/7, can still make a hefty amount of money, by farming 24/7. A human, which can farm a few hours per day, now can make only a very small amount of money. You'd have to be mentally retarded not to see this.

Learn to read?

I'm sure at least 75% of the posts want loot scaling removed.

I would love a poll, but Anet doesnt care about polls anyway.

Fixed the stat

The same bot has to work 4 (I think officially a solo farmer gets twice the drops he would get in an 8-man party) times longer than before to make the same amount of money. Effectively this reduces the sold gold flow to a quarter of its former volume - and that's before counting the effect of certain companies switching their resources to more bot-friendly games. Losses of 75% count as a huge blow in my book.

I think all the SMART ANet employees left in early 2006.

Anyone care to set up a poll for this? So we can get some quick reference tally on the standings?

I GOT IT!!!!!! We make everything in the game worth 1g...that way the ppl that are too lazy to farm for there gold can get the same as the ppl that play the for hours to get there high end stuff.

Plus would help kill the gold sellers....im the smartedest ^^

I already signed this a few pages back but
Either Remove LS OR add Gold Buying to the ingame store simple solution if you ask me.
Would give aanet some profit as well and before you say it will come down
to the haves and have-nots WELL we already have that now.

I'm sure at least 75% of the posters wouldn't mind having req 7 unconditional crystallines rain from the sky. Is that an argument for anything other than the general mentality of posters?

Numbers show little, while reasoning shows much.

Unfortunately, the "reasoning" is also the hardest thing to dig for in forums.

What don't the have-nots have that they actually NEED?

Gold buying in the ingame store is a nono. Any ingame store purchases that affect the economy/gameplay is a bad idea. It will also piss ANet off after all the "hard work" they put into their "dedicated" hunt to stop gold sellers.

Also lootscaling has no effect on bots - they probably have some fair solo farming spots, not to mention that the main reason we hate loot scaling is the poor turnout of farming drops and the sheer boredom. Bots don't care about either.

The income gap never mattered though. There's crap all for high end items and not like any of them have +damage or anything. In fact the only significant income gap left is the suspicious people with 10,000 armbrace, and the few tourney people who got limited edition items, and the rest of us. And seeing all they're buying with their loot is panda bears they have to tell themselves are special, is it really a big deal?

Yet it is a big deal to the average player, bored to tears vanquishing who decides to stop playing because grinding through the game endlessly without even the visual joy of a reward, is a very bad MMO kind of lame. It is a big deal also to people who just want to run another character through and find there's not as much fun and smoothness left in the process. It's a big deal as well to those who want to farm because they like that style of play, but find it stripped of basic reward and demotivating.

/signed

Loot scaling failed to stop gold sellers. This wont....So whats the point of loot scaling...BRING EPIC FARMING BACK

And how many of those only want it removed so they can fill their pockets 74% give or take??

Mass amounts of gold isn't required anymore. You can pick up gold req9 items for 1-10k (if you can't make that in a day, quit and do us all a favor). This isn't the old days when a req8 15^50 fellblade would sell for 1million+. People should be more concerned about getting better then having more gold.

oooo i know i awesome farming spot ,its called raptor farming,Man you can get these high end Ele Swords and make gold fast.......o wait nvm that farm was so easy all the humans overfarmed it like hell , my bad

There's a reason why devs don't let the masses decide game balance, if the masses had their way, we'd have a game with one click kill buttons that wiped out all monsters in range where then it would shower the players with gold item after gold item.

I'd be happy if elite armours, rare skin weapons, etc, were all very easily obtainable, because then people would choose what looks good, not what's the most expensive. And then they'd perhaps start spending time learning to get better at the game itself.

Your opinions are not supported by facts

1) Number of bots dramatically increased after loot scaling.
2) cost of gold went up.
3) demand to buy gold from players went up.
4) Prices in the GW economy were the lowest they had ever been just prior to loot scaling, falling, and about to fall dramatically with the advent of HM.

Loot scaling was a gift to the botters, a problem that ANet is continually having to fight against a year after loot scaling. They shot themselves in the foot with the player loot nerf and have been firefighting ever since. THe fact that so many players left the game because of their dreadful decision also doesn't help them.

There was no grand design behind the loot nerf. It was a poorly thought through idea by someone senior in ANet, if you recall, there was originally no excemption list (golds/greens/rare mats), that is how badly it was thought out, theyhad to put the excempt in real fast when they realised what a mess they had made of the economy on day one of the loot nerf.

I'm sorry but 55ers need to DIE.

Protective Spirit is useful for other things though, we should basically find some workaround that will mess it up - or maybe we increase the recharge time - I mean, wasn't the original intention to use it for upcoming spikes and battles, not as an almost continuous maintenance?

I have no hostility to the legitimate 55ers, but most bots 55. ANet has no problems killing player luxuries to kill bots (griffons, anyone?), so this would be an easy thing for them to pull off.

Wait, wait, wait, you can't stand vanquishing or otherwise playing the game in any form other than farming...but even then, only if you're seeing little white text on the ground after you kill the mobs. Otherwise, f*** it all, there's nothing to do? Oh, and it's not even like you need to farm for the money - as you say, there's nothing to spend it on - so you basically need something that is apparently useless (loot) in order to have fun at all.

It sounds like, if you're in this position, you should put the game down for a bit, because you've hit a wall. The only way to have fun is to farm, have stuff drop, and then have nothing to do with the money you get from farming all of that cash...yeah, great plan.

Keep LS in, and keep farming down to only being slightly more profitable than playing the game normally. Keep it in GW2 from the start, so maybe people will stop feeling the need to grind their eyes out in order to make the value in their storage box go up faster. If you farm because you find it fun, good for you; it's still more profitable per unit time than playing the game, and you're having fun, so you shouldn't be complaining. If you farm for only the money...STOP. You'll be a lot happier.

It's not being a whiner, even a non-casual player cannot acquire reliable funds.

Please, if you're such a supporter of the "even an idiot can make money" theory, tell me a viable farming build for each profession that DOES NOT involve Ursan.

My assumptions are based on the people on these forums. The majority saying yea is a majority saying yea.

I want to be able to farm more money for whatever I want to spend it on. Im not a casual gamer and I never said I was, but I do have a several PVE characters that also need cap sigs?

Casual gamers can make enough money. Hardcore gamers cannot (Although you can in just about EVERY other MMO).

Actauly with this community, it would be the opposite.


OMG DONT ADD HAIRDRESSERS YOU'RE WASTING TIME ON SOMETHING UNIMPORTANT.

DONT PUT A PLAYABLE MUSIC SYSTEM IN GW2 ITS WASTING TIME!

It might be more of a 50/50 thing though.


I think that loot scaling should be maybe a little bit reduced or maybe a new smart scaling system. However, removed all together is a little extreme (Though it works for some games, grinding based games though).

That's not lootscaling. It's either some kind of misguided anti-farm code, or the result of a very clumsy random number generator. I lean toward the latter, because I've seen the opposite as well: blowing up 36 spectral vaettir once gave me almost 36 drops, 2 black dyes among them, and 2 identical ruby mauls.

Personally the combo of loot scaling, and the shitty way they handled the duping (yeah unbanned the people who sold asian minis/rare weapons for 1750 armbraces, and not revert the trades was a good idea Anet:/). I personally would like some fluidity in the market. Cause if more poeple have money, people might start buying the unwanted weapons skin that normally were merch food. Then weapon mods would start goin up again. Then it would be affordable to chest run for mods. Nice to get some real money moving around.

Increasing the rates at which people get gold causes inflation, which means prices for trades between players go up. I like being able to buy stuff cheap, so yes it does affect me.

Wow... this thread got a lot of responses fast

However, /notsigned
Although I understand the frustration of solo farming now being 1/8th as effective (I do miss farming sometimes) I find that now a days I actually spend my time playing the game instead of mindlessly farming certain dumb mobs (all melee mobs with no enchantment removal, etc). I have a lot more fun now because I actaully play. And with quest/dugeon rewards, you can pratically make the same amount of money as before.
Less people farming and more people playing to teach them about tactics and developing builds is good.

One GW has and always has had, and probably always will have, is the lack of ways to make money. Face it. The main ways are...

1) Powertrading.
2) Farming.
3) Merch crap.
4) Farming.

Now many people say you can get enough money to set yourself for most things by "PLAYING THE GAME". In some cases this is true, but we're not talking about that. We are talking about when we want special items and armor, we are expected to mindlessly kill the same 50 things over and over?

That's boring. There is no real plan for GW to have new ways to make money, so the least they could do is make farming more feasible.

Once again, I refer back to 2005. The Prophecies economy was perfect - that was before the anti-farming code or loot scaling - we DID have bots then, LOTS of them, but they had no real effect on the economy aside from resulting in the nerfing of our favorite spots.

I still question how ANet's idea of taking popular farm spots and nerfing them makes the game "fairer for everyone". It does not. It just makes the farmers get poor.