Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?
Lem
That is why Sliver Armour owns all
Eldin
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
Ah come on. Everybody (that plays pve long enough) knows that de drop rate increases if you kill them 1 by 1 instead of all at the same time. >.>
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...yet somehow everyone loves to 55...
Sypherious
I personally agree with this idea. Remove LS and bring back the fun. But I would like to state something. I and tons of other people have the ability to make 150k+ a day. How? Beat NF, find a good farming guild and do full HM runs in DoA with ursanway. I saved from 0g up to 100k enough to buy full primeval for my monk in one day. If I can do this, anyone else can. How do I get 150k? Explanation:
At the completion of each area in DoA, you will get double the amount that you would in NM of anguish gemstones. 2 at first area, 4 at next, 6 at next, then 8!! gemstones at last area. Now do this again but only in reverse, you will have accumulated 10 sets. Witch is about 120k. And the other 30k will be in drops, and armor remnants.
Now I only speak for NF players. The non-NF players, I have no idea how you're going to do this which is why I'm agreeing to remove LS.
/signed.
At the completion of each area in DoA, you will get double the amount that you would in NM of anguish gemstones. 2 at first area, 4 at next, 6 at next, then 8!! gemstones at last area. Now do this again but only in reverse, you will have accumulated 10 sets. Witch is about 120k. And the other 30k will be in drops, and armor remnants.
Now I only speak for NF players. The non-NF players, I have no idea how you're going to do this which is why I'm agreeing to remove LS.
/signed.
romeus petrus
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Originally Posted by Eldin
It's true!
...yet somehow everyone loves to 55... |
mr_groovy
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Originally Posted by Sypherious
Explanation Doa Bear Ambrace thingy
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I for one Like some variation, and do runs to make money when ever I please, and not be dependable of a team. Thus solo farm.
mr_groovy
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
I don't see a problem with 55 SV. its SOJ that messes things up.
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Also just did a We/Me Uw run, Total Merch 800Gp ish. Total number of ecto's: 0. Profit made -200gp
Sypherious
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
While this is certainly profitable. U first need to complete NF, have a descent rank in LB & Norn. Then if you have a good pug you can get it together.
I for one Like some variation, and do runs to make money when ever I please, and not be dependable of a team. Thus solo farm. |
, which is extremely easy. All you have to do is spam heal party and the occasional seed of life. No one cares what rank in LB monks are. If you can heal, they will take you. That's what I do, even though I have eotn. Not gonna waste time ranking up in Norn 
Eli Rela
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
Ah come on. Everybody (that plays pve long enough) knows that de drop rate increases if you kill them 1 by 1 instead of all at the same time. >.>
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OK, here it is:
http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10159729
http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...ight=zelnehlun
Creeping Carl
I guess if LS ever gets removed, the new petition you farmers will be making is the removal of the "hassle" of killing monsters so you can get the gold and loot directly. In that update, the mobs still stand idle and hand you their stuff as you run by. Afterall, loot is all that matters right?
Loviatar
last time i could check almost 40 percent had never posted and 60 percent had 5 or less.
which shows actual player participation here.
NOTE
JEFF STRAIN is reminding the developers at this conference of researched, proven, marketing fact.
most of the player base never visit even the official site let alone a fansite.
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QUOTE JEFF STRAIN Pay close attention to complexity creep. Don't assume that most of your players are reading your website and consuming information about your game. Most of your players will never read your website, never visit fansites, and never participate in forum discussions. We are often immersed in the community forums and rants and raves posted to game fansites, and it is easy to lose perspective about the knowledge level of most of our players. Players who participate in fansites and send six-page emails to your community team are experts at your game – they probably know more about it than you do – so it's important to realize that they do not represent the average player. The vast majority of your players are not digging into every detail of every spell or creating lists of animations so that they can react when they see the basilisk twitch its nose. They want to play, not study, so take care to create a game that allows them to do so. |
mr_groovy
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
I guess if LS ever gets removed, the new petition you farmers will ....bla bla bla
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As Topic starter I must remind everybody:
LS effects everybody. 1/8 & 8/8. Would everybody stop saying that only farmers should oppose LS. I'm getting a little bit tired of having to keep reminding here
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
has anybody noticed that you no longer have the option to filter the membership list by post count?
last time i could check almost 40 percent had never posted and 60 percent had 5 or less. which shows actual player participation here. |
hallomik
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
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As Topic starter I must remind everybody: LS effects everybody. 1/8 & 8/8. Would everybody stop saying that only farmers should oppose LS. I'm getting a little bit tired of having to keep reminding here |
Please post the thread that shows that killing fast reduces drops. This thread in the farming section shows it makes no difference.
kartmaster
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
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As Topic starter I must remind everybody: LS effects everybody. 1/8 & 8/8. Would everybody stop saying that only farmers should oppose LS. I'm getting a little bit tired of having to keep reminding here |
Burning Blade
4 of my chars finished all campaigns, almost all skills unlocked through AB, farming isn't fun anymore because of little reward for your time, I am left with only "fun" to do in PvE: title grinding!
For those who complain about the gap between rich and poor and items were too expensive, why don't u ask ANET to remove drops all together, make items available for free as long as you reach that merchant or crafter area. Unlike real life economy where we actually have to buy and sell stuff to survive, we don't have to do that in GW, just kill things and progress through story line without ever needing to think about drops. Is it how you called "fun" and how we should play the the game?
For those who complain about the gap between rich and poor and items were too expensive, why don't u ask ANET to remove drops all together, make items available for free as long as you reach that merchant or crafter area. Unlike real life economy where we actually have to buy and sell stuff to survive, we don't have to do that in GW, just kill things and progress through story line without ever needing to think about drops. Is it how you called "fun" and how we should play the the game?
Loviatar
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no i am stating that until they removed the filter by post count that just over 40 percent of the 150,000 plus registered members never bothered to make a single post.
site stats not this thread which would be udder idiocy
i simply quoted an expert who reminded them of proven, many year researched market fact.
advertisers/site owners/game companies need this accurate information to help determine their site budget for example.
if relatively few come it would be foolish to blow half your advertising budget on an amazing site.
hallomik
Since not everyone reading this thread remembers the old system, I wanted to repeat this point: If you repeatedly zone into the same map, all of the quality drops will be disappear regardless of party size.
All those players who do DOA or Magus Stones or Varajar Fells or any other zone repeatedly in full teams will see their gold drops, lockpicks, tomes, etc. all be replaced with low quality white items.
This was the old system to narrow the gap between solo farms and non-solo farmers: worsen all drops if you entered the same zone a few times in a row.
The problem with the old approach was that it not only hurt solo-farmers, but it also hurt regular players repeating a zone. Sometimes you might just wipe against a boss a few times and unwittingly trigger the anti-farming code - nerfing all your drops to whites.
In the old system, it was very tricky to farm greens. You could not simply kill the boss 20 times in a row. If you did so, the boss (and every other mob on the map), would only drop low end whites. The solo-farmers typically didn't care about this because they were merching everything for gold or they had developed elaborate systems of cycling thru different farming areas to avoid triggering the code.
If we elimininate Loot Scaling, not only will many things become more expensive to the "normal" player, his loot and gold will decline significantly if he wipes in a zone 3-4 times or if he tries to "farm" Norn points. In fact, the old system is utterly incompatible with the current reputation scheme which encourages zone repetition.
The current LS system very elegantly focuses its effect right on the solo farmer, and leaves the normal player untouched. Also, the smart solo-farmer can still outearn the casual player by several times or more. As a person who enjoys solo farming on a regular basis, I remain firmly opposed to the elimination of Loot Scaling.
All those players who do DOA or Magus Stones or Varajar Fells or any other zone repeatedly in full teams will see their gold drops, lockpicks, tomes, etc. all be replaced with low quality white items.
This was the old system to narrow the gap between solo farms and non-solo farmers: worsen all drops if you entered the same zone a few times in a row.
The problem with the old approach was that it not only hurt solo-farmers, but it also hurt regular players repeating a zone. Sometimes you might just wipe against a boss a few times and unwittingly trigger the anti-farming code - nerfing all your drops to whites.
In the old system, it was very tricky to farm greens. You could not simply kill the boss 20 times in a row. If you did so, the boss (and every other mob on the map), would only drop low end whites. The solo-farmers typically didn't care about this because they were merching everything for gold or they had developed elaborate systems of cycling thru different farming areas to avoid triggering the code.
If we elimininate Loot Scaling, not only will many things become more expensive to the "normal" player, his loot and gold will decline significantly if he wipes in a zone 3-4 times or if he tries to "farm" Norn points. In fact, the old system is utterly incompatible with the current reputation scheme which encourages zone repetition.
The current LS system very elegantly focuses its effect right on the solo farmer, and leaves the normal player untouched. Also, the smart solo-farmer can still outearn the casual player by several times or more. As a person who enjoys solo farming on a regular basis, I remain firmly opposed to the elimination of Loot Scaling.
Jade
What I always wondered was why they started this at all? Think if it in real life terms.
Sure you could go out and rob 10 seperate people and get $10 from each netting you $100 right? But it'd take 10 minutes to rob each one, making it take 100 minutes. (counting running away time and time to find the next guy. Then say you go out and find 10 people around a campfire rosating marshmallows. You rob all 10 of them for $10 each netting you $100, but it only takes 10 minutes. AND you get some free marshmallows.
So maybe anet put in the "kill em all at the same time and get bugger all for loot" thing to make people play their game even longer? I know I used to farm alot back before ls, but not so much since. I miss my monster drops.
Sure you could go out and rob 10 seperate people and get $10 from each netting you $100 right? But it'd take 10 minutes to rob each one, making it take 100 minutes. (counting running away time and time to find the next guy. Then say you go out and find 10 people around a campfire rosating marshmallows. You rob all 10 of them for $10 each netting you $100, but it only takes 10 minutes. AND you get some free marshmallows.
So maybe anet put in the "kill em all at the same time and get bugger all for loot" thing to make people play their game even longer?
I know I used to farm alot back before ls, but not so much since. I miss my monster drops.
Shayne Hawke
Soooo... I should buy lots of ectos with my +800k?
I don't really see why loot scaling was so bad anyways. Seems like it's the way it should have been from the get-go.
I don't really see why loot scaling was so bad anyways. Seems like it's the way it should have been from the get-go.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
Seems like it's the way it should have been from the get-go.
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Eldin
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Originally Posted by kartmaster
LS has NO effect on full parties. Period.
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Besides, full parties have the same turnout without LS if I'm correct, so removing it would just help everyone.
Witchblade
The number of people unskilled at making decent amount of money just by playing the game is terryfying, stop begging for LS removal and kill stuff like everyone else.
Bowstring Badass
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Learn to read?
I'm sure at least 75% of the posts want loot scaling removed. I would love a poll, but Anet doesnt care about polls anyway. |
Lyssa Apate
/signed.
I like big numbers, you like big numbers, everyone likes big numbers. It wouldn't make that much of a difference to the 'casual' player. I've never seen a 'casual' player in full FoW dyed black.
I like big numbers, you like big numbers, everyone likes big numbers. It wouldn't make that much of a difference to the 'casual' player. I've never seen a 'casual' player in full FoW dyed black.
Witchblade
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Originally Posted by Lyssa Apate
I've never seen a 'casual' player in full FoW dyed black.
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kartmaster
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Originally Posted by Eldin
But we're not talking about full parties! We're talking about solo farmers.
Besides, full parties have the same turnout without LS if I'm correct, so removing it would just help everyone. |
Gun Pierson
It may be interesting to sum up events that changed farming somehow:
- they added nightmares to UW and ecto drop got reduced
- avicara melee group gets changed to a mixed group to counter rune farming
- an update changes the agro system as creeps will only follow you for a shorter distance from then on.
- AoE scatter upgrade
- loot scaling
- skill nerfing
- etc.
Farming became less fun over the years, if not even boring. The solo farmer got hit hard and I don't believe Anet will give any ground back to him. On the contrary, they haven't eliminated the possibility that a player can still earn 10 times as much money as a 'normal' player yet.
As much as I miss those days, they won't let this happen imo. If it means more fun, there's a good chance Anet will say 'No'. You can steamroll the whole game with Ursan (this is no QQ against Ursan, I stayed out that whole debate), but the devs would find 7 heroes imba as Gaile mentioned this week in LA. Lol? 7 heroes would be more fun so 'No'.
Anyway, I'm rambling on yet I still love this game to the point it's masochism playing it. I like shooting the bull, it's why I play this game, but now I have to look for the bull in HM DoA, UW HM, titles chasing.
The real problem is that there is no direct competition out there, not for me anyway. Not one game like GW so Anet makes the rules and one can adjust or leave the game. If exactly the same game was out there with some more (solo) farm love and the use of 7 heroes, I would switch instantly. Because in my case it would give me more fun.
Anyway good luck and you can still have my /sign just for more fun. What does it matter anyway, you can't take gold over to GW2 and don't expect too much from the hall of monuments.
'Freedom!'
- they added nightmares to UW and ecto drop got reduced
- avicara melee group gets changed to a mixed group to counter rune farming
- an update changes the agro system as creeps will only follow you for a shorter distance from then on.
- AoE scatter upgrade
- loot scaling
- skill nerfing
- etc.
Farming became less fun over the years, if not even boring. The solo farmer got hit hard and I don't believe Anet will give any ground back to him. On the contrary, they haven't eliminated the possibility that a player can still earn 10 times as much money as a 'normal' player yet.
As much as I miss those days, they won't let this happen imo. If it means more fun, there's a good chance Anet will say 'No'. You can steamroll the whole game with Ursan (this is no QQ against Ursan, I stayed out that whole debate), but the devs would find 7 heroes imba as Gaile mentioned this week in LA. Lol? 7 heroes would be more fun so 'No'.
Anyway, I'm rambling on yet I still love this game to the point it's masochism playing it. I like shooting the bull, it's why I play this game, but now I have to look for the bull in HM DoA, UW HM, titles chasing.
The real problem is that there is no direct competition out there, not for me anyway. Not one game like GW so Anet makes the rules and one can adjust or leave the game. If exactly the same game was out there with some more (solo) farm love and the use of 7 heroes, I would switch instantly. Because in my case it would give me more fun.
Anyway good luck and you can still have my /sign just for more fun. What does it matter anyway, you can't take gold over to GW2 and don't expect too much from the hall of monuments.
'Freedom!'
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Lazy? Explain to me how it is possible to make profit from UW runs if you have to pay 1k for entry and only make 300g per run if I want to keep my ectos for myself.
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IlikeGW
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Originally Posted by kartmaster
LS has NO effect on full parties. Period.
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It's interesting now that I think back I think they were intending to stimulate full parties with lootscaling... well, I think they've had enough time to see it didn't happen.
Gli
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Originally Posted by IlikeGW
Yeah but where in god's name is there such a thing besides an Ursan run? Full parties were dead by NF, with heroes just in time to replace the lack of available people to party.
It's interesting now that I think back I think they were intending to stimulate full parties with lootscaling... well, I think they've had enough time to see it didn't happen. |
Eldin
In the old days (Prophecies), people PuGged all the time. They didn't care about winning, they just enjoyed playing with others and socializing - not to mention henchies were even dumber back then.
Of course this is no longer true, PuGs are a rare treat, despite their stupidity, I enjoy them more than H/H.
Of course this is no longer true, PuGs are a rare treat, despite their stupidity, I enjoy them more than H/H.
Cab Tastic
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Originally Posted by JeniM
I don't understand what people are talking about.
People are saying if LS is taken out the expencive skins would become more expencive. Thats simply not true, they would cost more gold but the gold would be worth less. The actuall "cost" remains constant |
I know that inflation will occur on rare items as people have more gold. Anyone care to make a guess on what these items may be. Remember since HM rare items have increased in supply by many fold. I would take an estimate that ultra rare items may not increase in price by as much as you think.
Cab Tastic
[QUOTE=Gun Pierson]
The real problem is that there is no direct competition out there, not for me anyway. Not one game like GW so Anet makes the rules and one can adjust or leave the game. If exactly the same game was out there with some more (solo) farm love and the use of 7 heroes, I would switch instantly. Because in my case it would give me more fun.
QUOTE]
I feel the same way. Anet are very fortunate that their are no GW clones snapping at its heels. All new MMO games tend to follow the WOW route. I think I would have drifted off if something similar to GW had arrived.
The real problem is that there is no direct competition out there, not for me anyway. Not one game like GW so Anet makes the rules and one can adjust or leave the game. If exactly the same game was out there with some more (solo) farm love and the use of 7 heroes, I would switch instantly. Because in my case it would give me more fun.
QUOTE]
I feel the same way. Anet are very fortunate that their are no GW clones snapping at its heels. All new MMO games tend to follow the WOW route. I think I would have drifted off if something similar to GW had arrived.
Ork Pride
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Originally Posted by Cab Tastic
Exactly. The anti LS brigade can't really seem to grasp this concept.
I know that inflation will occur on rare items as people have more gold. Anyone care to make a guess on what these items may be. Remember since HM rare items have increased in supply by many fold. I would take an estimate that ultra rare items may not increase in price by as much as you think. |
Savio
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Originally Posted by Cab Tastic
I know that inflation will occur on rare items as people have more gold. Anyone care to make a guess on what these items may be. Remember since HM rare items have increased in supply by many fold. I would take an estimate that ultra rare items may not increase in price by as much as you think.
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WinterSnowblind
I used to enjoy playing the game by myself when none of my friends are around. Loot scaling sucked a lot of the fun out of that, removing it now would definitely encourage me to play more.
bhavv
Everything that the casual player needs to play the game (weapons and armor) are fixed in price. You can craft weapons as already pointed out, and you do not need any mods on them to complete the game. Once you complete factions, NF, and EOTN, you get three perfect greens, and you also get several perfect gold and green weapons as quest rewards in EOTN (bison cup, knuckles, kershs staff).
If the economy does change and prices become more expensive, this will not affect casual players. If you are looking to buy rare skin weapons which come at a high price, you are not a casual player.
Prices for normal materials will actually decrease because they are common drops and they will drop a lot more with LS removed. Therefore removing LS will actually benefit casual players by decreasing the cost of normal materials.
Prices on minor and major runes will also decrease as they will drop a lot more too.
If the economy does change and prices become more expensive, this will not affect casual players. If you are looking to buy rare skin weapons which come at a high price, you are not a casual player.
Prices for normal materials will actually decrease because they are common drops and they will drop a lot more with LS removed. Therefore removing LS will actually benefit casual players by decreasing the cost of normal materials.
Prices on minor and major runes will also decrease as they will drop a lot more too.
lactatemike
/signed
I used to love coming up with builds to solo farm areas. The challenge is fun, and that part is still there, but the hope of finding some place that is worthwhile is gone now. I would play a LOT more if that were to change.
I used to love coming up with builds to solo farm areas. The challenge is fun, and that part is still there, but the hope of finding some place that is worthwhile is gone now. I would play a LOT more if that were to change.
Fay Vert
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Originally Posted by Savio
Prices on anything desirable will go up - not just rare items, but runes and mats too. Removing loot scaling helps hardcore farmers but has a negative impact on anyone not hardcore farming. Casual farmers will be happy to get more money but won't be so happy when they notice prices going up.
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We can all have opinions on what may happen, but it must be somewhat inconvenient that the facts simply do not support the pro-loot nerf argument.
Savio
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Everything that the casual player needs to play the game (weapons and armor) are fixed in price. You can craft weapons as already pointed out, and you do not need any mods on them to complete the game. Once you complete factions, NF, and EOTN, you get three perfect greens, and you also get several perfect gold and green weapons as quest rewards in EOTN (bison cup, knuckles, kershs staff).
If the economy does change and prices become more expensive, this will not affect casual players. If you are looking to buy rare skin weapons which come at a high price, you are not a casual player. Prices for normal materials will actually decrease because they are common drops and they will drop a lot more with LS removed. Therefore removing LS will actually benefit casual players by decreasing the cost of normal materials. Prices on minor and major runes will also decrease as they will drop a lot more too. |
Mat prices won't really go down, not when merching is an easier way to make money than salvaging. Runes are debatable; it depends on what the farmers start doing with their massive incomes. If it includes buying elite armors (which farmers seem to enjoy), there goes rune prices.
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
So why were prices just before the loot nerf lower than they had ever been before and falling? And this was before HM made perfect mods and runes common place.
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