Quote:
|
Originally Posted by manitoba1073
So you want us rich old timers to complain too? So that must also mean that it must be new comers that are complaining.
|
Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?
Gli
reetkever
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gli
Yeah? Ask Reetkever where he's hiding his millions. The incredibly rich old-timers aren't the ones complaining in this thread, obviously.
|
Which millions? :P
Don't understand me wrong, if I KNEW there would be a Loot Scaling, I would farm my @$$ off to get rich just so I could survive a bit after the Loot Scaling.
Sadly enough, I spent all the cash I got from the Trolls right away...
The people who are rich are the ones who were rich before the Scaling. The point here is that before the Scaling, anyone could become rich. Sure, you don't get as much cash as you get from Power Trading, but it's still quite alot (~900 gold per run).
The people who had stacks of ecto's already before the Loot Scaling most probably sold them when the Scaling came. Smart people saw the price of ecto's rising rapidly and it was pretty obvious that A-Net screwed up with the Scaling. People who sold their stuff before the Exemption List came were almost instant-rich. Most probably these are the people that are in the rare mini-pet market now.
Shakkara
Yes please, stuff like keys and alcohol/candy are way too expensive to buy from the merchant now, and we want them for titles!
Lootscaling, be gone!
Lootscaling, be gone!
Angelic Upstart
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by reetkever
Which millions? :P
Sadly enough, I spent all the cash I got from the Trolls right away... The people who are rich are the ones who were rich before the Scaling. The point here is that before the Scaling, anyone could become rich. Sure, you don't get as much cash as you get from Power Trading, but it's still quite alot (~900 gold per run). |
Personally i made the majority of my money after LS, HM solo farming Colossal Scimitars, Dead Swords, Ele Swords, etc when they were actually worth something.
Plus rinsing Bergen Hot Springs HM with my 55 yielded good drops Tomes, Lockpicks and merchable golds, pretty much like the Troll cave back in the day, which helped greatly, if you needed quick cash it was a fast and easy way to get it.
Dont get me wrong i dont like the way LS was implemented, nor am i rich compared to some of the tycoons that exist in GW but i dont need for anything and all my 11 chars are kitted out, so for me anyway HM was a god send after i skinted myself completely when NF came out and i discovered Vabbian Necro armour
ogre_jd
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shakkara
Yes please, stuff like keys and alcohol/candy are way too expensive to buy from the merchant now, and we want them for titles!
Lootscaling, be gone! |
reetkever
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart
Personally i made the majority of my money after LS, HM solo farming Colossal Scimitars, Dead Swords, Ele Swords, etc when they were actually worth something.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart
Plus rinsing Bergen Hot Springs HM with my 55 yielded good drops Tomes, Lockpicks and merchable golds, pretty much like the Troll cave back in the day, which helped greatly, if you needed quick cash it was a fast and easy way to get it.
|
For traders, it's a way to get rich, though.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart
Dont get me wrong i dont like the way LS was implemented, nor am i rich compared to some of the tycoons that exist in GW but i dont need for anything and all my 11 chars are kitted out, so for me anyway HM was a god send after i skinted myself completely when NF came out and i discovered Vabbian Necro armour
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ogre_jd
Here's a crazy thought: Maybe it's deliberate. Maybe they want to discourage people from chasing every title just because the titles exist. <sarcasm>Nah, the titles exist so you gotta catch 'em all!</sarcasm>
|
Eldin
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
The old-timers are already incredibly rich off of power trading and their wealth from before Loot Scaling.
|
Savio
In 2005, money was easy to come by, but everything else was proportionally harder to come by - I don't think there were 15^50 collectors for every weapon at the start. Having to buy everything for 100k+ wasn't the sign of a great economy.
In contrast, today money is harder to come by, but you don't really have to depend on making money either. The market is such that you can afford perfect items with the money you make playing normally; you only need money for vanity purposes.
In contrast, today money is harder to come by, but you don't really have to depend on making money either. The market is such that you can afford perfect items with the money you make playing normally; you only need money for vanity purposes.
Fay Vert
In 2005 you could play for a whol year and not get a black dye, a sup vigor, or a +30 fort mod. THAT was why the economy was poor. Just like today when a RARE thing appears, new weapon skils or minipets, the proice is instantly 100+mega-e. That has nothing to do with the availablity of gold. Its simple supply and demand. If they eliminate the loot nerf then supply and demand stay the same (in fact supply increases for minor runes and some inscriptions).
To say that prices will increase is totally illogical. How can prices increase when supply completely outstrips demand? Sure, the cash price of mini-polar bears woould go up, so tough if you just saved those 3000 ectos in the hope of buying one :P
The (crazy) rich people in GW are NOT the farmers. Farmers will get 105 ectos (or cash equivalent) for Obsidian armour. No farmer would ever get 3000 ectos worth needed for the silly stuff. The whol ANerf cruisade is silly and misguided.
To say that prices will increase is totally illogical. How can prices increase when supply completely outstrips demand? Sure, the cash price of mini-polar bears woould go up, so tough if you just saved those 3000 ectos in the hope of buying one :P
The (crazy) rich people in GW are NOT the farmers. Farmers will get 105 ectos (or cash equivalent) for Obsidian armour. No farmer would ever get 3000 ectos worth needed for the silly stuff. The whol ANerf cruisade is silly and misguided.
manitoba1073
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gli
I really don't have a clue what point you're trying to make here.
|
Loviatar
loot scaling was primarily an anti hard core farmer move replacing the old anti farm code bots were a side dish.
super farmer has been a long recognized problem that is being delt with.
quote Mike O'Brien, head of the Design Team
super farmer has been a long recognized problem that is being delt with.
quote Mike O'Brien, head of the Design Team
Quote:
| Although a very knowledgeable or tricky player may be able to earn gold twice as fast as the average, this tends not to create a significant problem, because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them. But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges. We constantly monitor the game, so we know when a certain place or technique is being heavily exploited. When an issue like this becomes too severe, we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line. |
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by manitoba1073
You're the one that made a point. That its not rich oldtimers that are complaining. Whats that leave. Newcomers and others to the game here that are mostly complaining.
|
And yes, the not-so-rich old-timers are the ones complaining. Didn't you read the thread?
Gun Pierson
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Loviatar
loot scaling was primarily an anti hard core farmer move replacing the old anti farm code bots were a side dish.
super farmer has been a long recognized problem that is being delt with. quote Mike O'Brien, head of the Design Team |
Who can play these styles? Veterans, skilled players, talented people, players who look things up and test builds etc. Not the average Joe or the majority of the playerbase imo.
At this point I think lootscaling failed for several reasons mentioned in this thread, but especialy because of that quote from Mike. Actually I should advocate to keep it as I have all the bling bling I want (except for a few crazy grind titles) and got most of my stuff before LS, playing hardcore in terms of time since prophecies' release. I'm rdy for GW2, nevertheless I think it would be more fun in the meantime if LS gets removed.
Witchblade
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Who can play these styles? Veterans, skilled players, talented people, players who look things up and test builds etc. Not the average Joe or the majority of the playerbase imo
|
Just QQ for stuff since ANet "owes" us the easy money i their game, be patient and believe in the magical update that make things easier.
There are too much kiddies that want sweets and booze fast, easy and most obviously they want it NOW.
This was supposed to be casual gamer stuff but now casuals must have fows and greed titles as well.
Stolen Souls
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by reetkever
A-Net has always been saying that skill > time in this game.
|
the_jos
Quote:
| Yes I remember that quote but if you can do DoA HM and HM UW smite runs and you know the good places (raptor cave etc) to fast farm for event items, you still make at least ten times the money a 'normal' player would. |
Some players know the market and how to play it.
And no, the ordinary players can't do that and do not benefit much from it.
The true hardcore farmers or the ones with good game knowledge will always make more gold, specially compared to the ordinary players who only play for fun.
The thing that changed is that ordinary players are not forced into farming anymore when they want anything that should be affordable.
It was a continuous circle of people wanting something, it's too expensive so they go farm and bring more gold in the economy and thereby raising and keeping prices too high for players who enjoy playing in full teams.
The players who do farm the items on those event don't do that so they can afford more runes, dyes, greens and that kind of items.
Their goals are expensive titles or rare items. Things the ordinary player never can afford.
Trub
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Witchblade
The prob is that it requires making builds, spending time reading skills, forums and wikis, killing stuff for hours... damn, way too much huh?^^
Just QQ for stuff since ANet "owes" us the easy money i their game, be patient and believe in the magical update that make things easier. There are too much kiddies that want sweets and booze fast, easy and most obviously they want it NOW. This was supposed to be casual gamer stuff but now casuals must have fows and greed titles as well. |
I say Witchblades post wins this thread.
Gun Pierson
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by the_jos
The thing that changed is that ordinary players are not forced into farming anymore when they want anything that should be affordable.
|
A part of me says keep LS to boost my e-peen illusion some more
Another part of me thinks it would be more fun somehow for the majority, myself included if it gets removed. That's why in the end it doesn't matter to me if it stays or not, I still love this game. Does that make sense?
IlikeGW
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Trub
In some circles, we call that description very acurate to the disorder many,many gamers suffer now days.."Instant Gratification.'
|
Razz Thom
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Witchblade
The prob is that it requires making builds, spending time reading skills, forums and wikis, killing stuff for hours... damn, way too much huh?^^
Just QQ for stuff since ANet "owes" us the easy money i their game, be patient and believe in the magical update that make things easier. There are too much kiddies that want sweets and booze fast, easy and most obviously they want it NOW. This was supposed to be casual gamer stuff but now casuals must have fows and greed titles as well. |
Eldin
Once again, can't we just agree that before LS everyone was flat out richer, plain and simple? Even if you didn't farm back then, point is that the potential was there, you'd make much more money than you would now.
I think that Ettin, Troll, and Griffon nerfing also killed the economy a bit. They were still some of the best farming locations.
I think that Ettin, Troll, and Griffon nerfing also killed the economy a bit. They were still some of the best farming locations.
manitoba1073
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gli
You're missing half the conversation. Someone said that old-timers were all rich, I just told him that not all old-timers are rich. That's the only point I was making.
And yes, the not-so-rich old-timers are the ones complaining. Didn't you read the thread? |
N1ghtstalker
i wanna know wtf is going on now with MY loot
i'm constantly getting purples from locked chest IN HARD MODE
and i'm the only one getting those worthless drops
it's sickening ><
i'm constantly getting purples from locked chest IN HARD MODE
and i'm the only one getting those worthless drops
it's sickening ><
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by manitoba1073
So lets get this straight then. You're saying its the poor players that are complaining as I said in my post the first time I quoted you. Now wouldnt that be exactly opposite of what Anerf is and was trying to accomplish with LS.
|
ogre_jd
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by reetkever
Why would A-Net put in the titles and then make it unreach-able for people? A-Net has always been saying that skill > time in this game. Since some titles have positive effects on gameplay, A-Net should not make reaching the titles too hard or else they contradict themselves.
|
manitoba1073
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gli
No, I'm saying that the poor old-timers are complaining and not the rich old-timers. It wasn't even any kind of point I wanted to make, I only implied that not all old-timers are rich. I never said that poor players in general are complaining.
|
Savio
No, it's the middle-class farmers who complain the most. The ones who have 15k armors, dozens of skills and workable builds, multiple titles - you know, the group that never has enough.
Ork Pride
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
No, it's the middle-class farmers who complain the most. The ones who have 15k armors, dozens of skills and workable builds, multiple titles - you know, the group that never has enough.
|
Savio
Self-explanatory.
Also self-explanatory.
Black armor.
Wants nice armor.
Has 15k armor.
This thread is rife with other examples. If you have elite armors, shiny weapons, etc. you're not a casual player. There's the actual casual player, who only has a few plat and not even close to max equipment, and then there's the "casual player" farmer who doesn't think his 3 sets of armor is enough. Only one of them sees significant benefits from the removal of loot scaling.
If you really want to help the casual player, ask for an increase in gold from everything, not just from farming.
Also self-explanatory.
Black armor.
Wants nice armor.
Has 15k armor.
This thread is rife with other examples. If you have elite armors, shiny weapons, etc. you're not a casual player. There's the actual casual player, who only has a few plat and not even close to max equipment, and then there's the "casual player" farmer who doesn't think his 3 sets of armor is enough. Only one of them sees significant benefits from the removal of loot scaling.
If you really want to help the casual player, ask for an increase in gold from everything, not just from farming.
Stolen Souls
I think many of the people here need to truly understand what a "casual player" is. Casual players are not farmers. They are people that play through the game for fun, whenever time allows them to. They don't care that they don't make 50-100k per day, because they dont NEED that much (people that say they don't have enough for skills are full of BS).
Most of those posting here are not casual players. They are farmers that want more, and want to get it faster.
Most of those posting here are not casual players. They are farmers that want more, and want to get it faster.
Angelic Upstart
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
I think many of the people here need to truly understand what a "casual player" is. Casual players are not farmers. They are people that play through the game for fun, whenever time allows them to.
Agreed, . Most of those posting here are not casual players. They are farmers that want more, and want to get it faster. |
rustyduktape
/signed, we need to get rid of this lootscaling thing so it will better our economy in game.
Fay Vert
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
I think many of the people here need to truly understand what a "casual player" is. Casual players are not farmers. They are people that play through the game for fun, whenever time allows them to. They don't care that they don't make 50-100k per day, because they dont NEED that much (people that say they don't have enough for skills are full of BS).
Most of those posting here are not casual players. They are farmers that want more, and want to get it faster. |
Strikes me, you have no idea of what casual play is if you think that casual players can't farm.
Ork Pride
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
Self-explanatory.
Also self-explanatory. Black armor. Wants nice armor. Has 15k armor. This thread is rife with other examples. If you have elite armors, shiny weapons, etc. you're not a casual player. There's the actual casual player, who only has a few plat and not even close to max equipment, and then there's the "casual player" farmer who doesn't think his 3 sets of armor is enough. Only one of them sees significant benefits from the removal of loot scaling. If you really want to help the casual player, ask for an increase in gold from everything, not just from farming. |
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Lets see now. I am a casual player, I have maybe half an hour to spare, maybe not even that, I don't know. Which sort of game play suits me better? Is it the 3 hour dungeon, in a PuG, that I would almost certainly have to abandon not even half way through? Or is it the solo, go out and blow up some trolls a few times sort of gameplay?
Strikes me, you have no idea of what casual play is if you think that casual players can't farm. |
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
people that say they don't have enough for skills are full of BS
|
Stolen Souls
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
You're an idiot. I don't have enough for skills. I can't afford to toss away 1k repeatedly for skills because Loot Scaling ensures that I can barely farm anything.
|
Proph quests = skills.
Tomes = 500 gold.
Hero points = skills.
ty kthnxbai
Quote:
| Strikes me, you have no idea of what casual play is if you think that casual players can't farm |
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
Proph quests = skills. (lol, those are only for prophecies characters)
Tomes = 500 gold. Hero points = skills. |
GG.
Stolen Souls
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Nowhere here have you mentioned the actual acquisition of gold. Also, tomes are purchased from players, which makes them not appropriate for use in this debate since there is no merchant that sells them. And hero points only account for a few skills until you need to work on grinding them out.
GG. |
Quote:
| Also, tomes are purchased from players, which makes them not appropriate for use in this debate since there is no merchant that sells them. |
Need to aquire gold? Raptor farming...go spend an hour doing it. Get tons of eggs and bunnies...maybe an ele sword and dyes. Sell them. Buy skills.
GG
Quote:
| (lol, those are only for prophecies characters) |
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
Does a casual player NEED a huge arsenal of skills? Nope. A hardcore player that utilizes many builds, yes. Casual, nope.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
So? If you can't "afford" a skill for 1k, spend a few precious minutes in Kamadan and buy a tome. Don't want to? Then you must not really need the skill THAT badly...
|