Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

Stolen Souls

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

22 Mar 2008 at 23:50 - 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
With Guild Wars' constantly altering skill selection, yeh, you do need a large arsenal of skills.
And I gave ways to get them. For example, you can FARM Raptors. 600/Smite practically...well, anywhere.



Quote:
Wow, you're able to buy tomes from players in minutes? Lucky you.
Yes, minutes. It won't take long to see someone spam "WTS Warrior tomes blah blah blah", etc. Not to mention the fact that if you farm in HM (which you apparently have time to do), you get them as drops.

OR...don't want to farm? 40 minutes....join a CoF run. Get gold, gold items, lockpicks, rare mats, and tomes...AND increase your Delver title. Buy skills with the gold. GG

It's not impossible for a "casual" player to afford stuff. Not by far.


People are making it seem like they don't have the time to get the skills and stuff they need. If that's the case, how can they possibly have enough time to put those skills/etc to use?

If a person only has 15 minutes a day to play, that isn't the fault of Anet, nor of Lootscaling. Everyone has to work for the "good stuff". Hardcore players and casuals alike.

w00t!

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sorrow's Furnace Hot Tub

RoS

Mo/Me

22 Mar 2008 at 23:52 - 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Nowhere here have you mentioned the actual acquisition of gold. Also, tomes are purchased from players, which makes them not appropriate for use in this debate since there is no merchant that sells them. And hero points only account for a few skills until you need to work on grinding them out.

GG.
If you can't get enough gold to acquire skills, then simply PvP in RA for a bit and buy all the crappy skills you won't ever use with Balth Faction. Save your money for the good skills (which are usually < 1/2 the total skills in any profession).

If you can't get enough gold to buy the skills you need, then you're seriously doing something wrong.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 00:00 - 603
It's kind of hilarious how some people stamp their feet and declaim how some things just aren't possible, while legions of people are actually doing it without giving it a second thought.

-Loki-

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 00:04 - 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
/signed
Make GW fun again for those who have finished the storylines.
You could always PvP.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

23 Mar 2008 at 01:14 - 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
If you have half an hour or less to spend, you don't need any gold at all because you'll never get anywhere.
Ah, so the point of loot scaling is to prevent casual players ever getting anything of value!

It all makes sense now, thank you.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 01:24 - 606
No, I meant that literally. If you play in chunks of less than half an hour per day, you'll take 2 years to reach Thunderhead Keep, and that's where you'll stay. Plenty of Raven Staffs in that neighborhood though.

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 01:36 - 607
The loot scaling was made to couter farmer in general, not only professional gold farmer.

So no point in doing that.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

23 Mar 2008 at 01:45 - 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
No, I meant that literally. If you play in chunks of less than half an hour per day, you'll take 2 years to reach Thunderhead Keep, and that's where you'll stay. Plenty of Raven Staffs in that neighborhood though.
A casual player isn't someone who will alway be able to play 3 hour a day, 5+ days a week, nor is it someone who can never spend more than 30 mins. A casual player is someone who dips in and out of the game, sometimes they have a good amount of time to play a long mission or dungeon, sometimes they just have 30 mins, or even an unknown number of mins.

Whenever a casual player doesn't have more than 30 mins they can dedicate to a pug or dungeon, farming is the perfect activity for them. A productive use of that spare 30 mins. You don't have to be expert, its easy to find relatively profitable farming spots suitable for every skill level. Or, so it used to be before ANerf decided to stamp this form of gameplay out, coincidentally around the same time they added GRIND!

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 02:15 - 609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fay Vert
A casual player isn't someone who will alway be able to play 3 hour a day, 5+ days a week, nor is it someone who can never spend more than 30 mins. A casual player is someone who dips in and out of the game, sometimes they have a good amount of time to play a long mission or dungeon, sometimes they just have 30 mins, or even an unknown number of mins.

Whenever a casual player doesn't have more than 30 mins they can dedicate to a pug or dungeon, farming is the perfect activity for them. A productive use of that spare 30 mins. You don't have to be expert, its easy to find relatively profitable farming spots suitable for every skill level. Or, so it used to be before ANerf decided to stamp this form of gameplay out, coincidentally around the same time they added GRIND!
They only stamped out the excesses. Solo farming without lootscaling introduced excessive amounts of gold into the game. There's plenty you can do in 30 minutes that provides a decent amount of gold and resources if you're not hung up about solofarming.

How much would you expect to make in 30 minutes anyway? I made 3.5k in 25 minutes earlier taking out all the wardens in the Arborstone explorable with myself and 3 heroes. I needed some tanned leather, got carried away and killed them all while I waited for guildies to finish what they were doing. 8.4k per hour sounds like a pretty good deal to me, for a casual player.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 02:15 - 610
I think I still dont see the point of how removal of LS would affect the casual player. Max 1k armor is cheap, collector weapons are free, crafter weapons are 5k, and decent enough weapon mods drop on just about every purple or gold so when you get one you can salvage and put it on your weapon.

A casual player will not see any difference from an elly sword or emerald blade over a free end game green. However, hardcore players that want to fill up their HoM should be able to make enough money to max titles, buy elite armors, and rare skins if they choose to.

This does not disadvantage the casual player in any way, they will still make the same amount of gold and will be able to buy items from the vendors.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 02:20 - 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
However, hardcore players that want to fill up their HoM should be able to make enough money to max titles, buy elite armors, and rare skins if they choose to.
Newsflash: hardcore players are maxing titles, buying elite armors, rare skins and filling up their HoM. Hardcore players have no trouble at getting around the lootscaling inconvenience.

Cab Tastic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rt/

23 Mar 2008 at 02:25 - 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
Lootscaling does cause a relative scarcity of minor runes and common materials. Demand is apparently still pretty high for some given their prices.


Then they weren't decent drops, were they? Besides, most people don't care what they can sell, it's what they can afford to buy. From where I'm sitting, only the jaded old-timers are complaining in this thread.
This jaded old timer can see past personal gain. It is about what is best for the game. This thread shows the depth of feeling against LS and the fun factor that got drained away.

I don't think the experienced players lack a means of making money, I certainly don't. Farming was fun, now its...... well not as much fun.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 02:25 - 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
Newsflash: hardcore players are maxing titles, buying elite armors, rare skins and filling up their HoM. Hardcore players have no trouble at getting around the lootscaling inconvenience.
Newsflash, most hardcore with elite armors and rare weapon skins got them before loot scaling.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

23 Mar 2008 at 02:26 - 614
The ability to ban IPs wont stop gold/item sellers. They'll adapt their tactics. Gold will probably cost a few more dollars to buy of course... This wont stop them though.

So this whole thread is pointless IMO unless the OP or whoever can prove that there will no longer be gold selling.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 02:28 - 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Newsflash, most hardcore with elite armors and rare weapon skins got them before loot scaling.
If that's what you want to believe, sure.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

23 Mar 2008 at 02:29 - 616
It's completely retarded that the game structure allows for one monk to clear entire areas and make insane money.

Therefore, LS is good. Or rather the game shouldn't allow solo farming.

So my vote is this:

1) remove LS
2) alter all those solo monk farming skills so that solo monk farming isn't possible

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 02:30 - 617
Loot scaling didnt stop gold sellers either, in fact we have a lot more gold sellers since it was implemented, so why do we still need LS if it doesnt do anything to prevent bots?

To the ignorant post above, it isnt just monks that can farm solo, any class can do it. And it really doesnt affect you in anyway if someone else finds it fun to farm solo.

Cab Tastic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rt/

23 Mar 2008 at 02:36 - 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
Self-explanatory.
Also self-explanatory.
Black armor.
Wants nice armor.
Has 15k armor.

This thread is rife with other examples. If you have elite armors, shiny weapons, etc. you're not a casual player. There's the actual casual player, who only has a few plat and not even close to max equipment, and then there's the "casual player" farmer who doesn't think his 3 sets of armor is enough. Only one of them sees significant benefits from the removal of loot scaling.

If you really want to help the casual player, ask for an increase in gold from everything, not just from farming.
Or perhaps, just perhaps, the people complaining used to enjoy farming.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 02:37 - 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Loot scaling didnt stop gold sellers either, in fact we have a lot more gold sellers since it was implemented, so why do we still need LS if it doesnt do anything to prevent bots?
It wasn't just aimed at bots. It was aimed at hardcore farmers. Bots are just a subset of that.

Loviatar provided an interesting quote earlier.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

23 Mar 2008 at 02:39 - 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Loot scaling didnt stop gold sellers either, in fact we have a lot more gold sellers since it was implemented, so why do we still need LS if it doesnt do anything to prevent bots?

To the ignorant post above, it isnt just monks that can farm solo, any class can do it. And it really doesnt affect you in anyway if someone else finds it fun to farm solo.
What kind of bitter little monkey are you to call me ignorant? I was using monks as an example since that's the way the majority tends to go.

And it doesn't really affect me in any way when people dupe armbraces. So Anet should allow duping.

Your logic is terrible.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 02:40 - 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cab Tastic
Or perhaps, just perhaps, the people complaining used to enjoy farming.
So why don't they enjoy it now? Oh wait... maybe they enjoyed the excessive rewards more than the act of killing monsters? Because, monsters still die like they used to. If it's so fun to farm them, nothing is stopping anyone.

Cab Tastic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rt/

23 Mar 2008 at 02:49 - 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
They only stamped out the excesses. Solo farming without lootscaling introduced excessive amounts of gold into the game. There's plenty you can do in 30 minutes that provides a decent amount of gold and resources if you're not hung up about solofarming.

How much would you expect to make in 30 minutes anyway? I made 3.5k in 25 minutes earlier taking out all the wardens in the Arborstone explorable with myself and 3 heroes. I needed some tanned leather, got carried away and killed them all while I waited for guildies to finish what they were doing. 8.4k per hour sounds like a pretty good deal to me, for a casual player.
Excessive amounts of gold......inflation.....yada yada... for all of you who remember.. did it exist before LS.

All common mat, minor runes were all dirt cheap. Collectors armour could be argued as being cheaper as the constituents were easier to obtain.

Sure rare weapons etc were more expensive but thats still the case now.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

23 Mar 2008 at 02:50 - 623
I make plenty of money as it is now, and I'm not even a hardcore player. I have over a million gold and I've never even solo farmed for a minute.

If I can make money, why can't you guys?

/NOTSIGNED

Cab Tastic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rt/

23 Mar 2008 at 02:51 - 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
So why don't they enjoy it now? Oh wait... maybe they enjoyed the excessive rewards more than the act of killing monsters? Because, monsters still die like they used to. If it's so fun to farm them, nothing is stopping anyone.
I Like opening presents at christmas too. But its not quite the same when there's nothing inside.

Willow O Whisper

Willow O Whisper

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Denmark

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Me/A

23 Mar 2008 at 03:04 - 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebalrai
I make plenty of money as it is now, and I'm not even a hardcore player. I have over a million gold and I've never even solo farmed for a minute.

If I can make money, why can't you guys?

/NOTSIGNED
Please oh please then tell me what you are doing? Beacuse the rest of us sure haven't found this trick of yours.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 03:13 - 626
When vanquishing all I make is 10k a day. From raptor farming over the last two days and playing a few extra hours then I normally would I made 25k on top of bunnies and eggs.

Im really looking forward to being able to afford one and a half pieces of elite armor for two days of farming :x

Loot scaling turned farming into grind. Bots dont care about that because they can grind all they like. But honest players that enjoy farming dont really get much from it anymore.

OS T

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/E

23 Mar 2008 at 03:14 - 627
/signed,I miss old days when troll farming was it....Anet just keeping nerfing all the time,at least they could take away AI for monsters...hate lootscaling...

Murmel

Murmel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Land of Confusion

[swea]

W/

23 Mar 2008 at 03:15 - 628
Isn't there anyway to get this post to Anet or something...?
Remove the loot-scaling goddamnit
Ever since the loot scaling came I've just become poorer and poorer each day (even if I farm). I know I'm not the only one with this problem... I don't think you should have to finish 1-2 campains just to afford elite amor as it is available so early... And not just elite armor, good golds and greens is at hellish price, thanks to hmm what? oh loot scaling -_-. Took my assa out yesterday for some green farming. farmed for about 2,5 hours. not a single green, nor elite tome or anything of value...

I'll sign this. /signed

Also, if we remove the darn loot scaling all the beggars will go away... Ppl begging for 50g for storage.. would take a couple of secs without loot scaling to get 50g in the low-lever regions.

I just concluded that this post doesn't make sense at all. The only thing worth reading really is the /signed.

Anyway. I'm done

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

23 Mar 2008 at 03:31 - 629
It is still possible to solo farm as the improvements of AI and anti-farming code have been removed, but with the addition of the loot scaling, the loots will be reduced. In other words, the enjoyment to solo farms is not affected, but the profit is. In short, loot-scaling does not affect satisfication to people's enjoyment of playing the game, but it affects the satisfication to people's greed to farming for profits.

Does anyone have an argument that isn't based on mere greed?

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 03:32 - 630
Anet unfortunately dont care about what the players want. They already have our money, and people (and bots) playing the game so they are going to leave it as it is, except for nerfing. Gaile has been on guru the last few days posting crap about text minis, but cant even be bothered to mention anything in this thread or even just say that she will mention it to the developers. And dont forget that after mentioning something to the developers, it takes a good 6-24 months to do anything about it.

To the post above there is very little profit attainable from farming, and whatever you do make will hardly be enough for elite armor or rare skins.

Murmel

Murmel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Land of Confusion

[swea]

W/

23 Mar 2008 at 03:35 - 631
From my own experience (alot of GW) farmers usually don't tend to farm for fun.. Though some farm for the challenge, but the majority still farm for the greed.

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

23 Mar 2008 at 03:40 - 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
To the post above there is very little profit attainable from farming, and whatever you do make will hardly be enough for elite armor or rare skins.
It depends on what you mean by farming. As for me, farming means using the most profitable method to gain money. In other words, there is no clear indication that I must solo, although it is still possible to earn profitable gold by soloing in certain locations. However, I have to admit, Hard Mode is usually a must to farming as it will generate more drops. Just because certain farming methods do not work, it doesn't imply that farming in general does not work.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 03:41 - 633
I farm to try and obtain golds for wisdom, and try to make money for sweets and booze, and am currently wanting elite armor on two of my characters. That might sound as greed to you, but to me it is character development which is an important aspect for many players in RPGs. I never have money left over from farming and I havnt had 6 figures stored up since before LS when I used to farm loads and make 30-50k a day.

To the post above both vanquishing and raptor farming are done in HM and I can only make 10k a day from them. Going to UW for ecto then loses me 500-700 gold each run as entry costs 1k, I only make 300g from drops and am storing the ectos for gloves. Profit in terms of gold coins does not exist for me in GW.

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

23 Mar 2008 at 03:46 - 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
I farm to try and obtain golds for wisdom, and try to make money for sweets and booze, and am currently wanting elite armor on two of my characters. That might sound as greed to you, but to me it is character development which is an important aspect for many players in RPGs. I never have money left over from farming and I havnt had 6 figures stored up since before LS when I used to farm loads and make 30-50k a day.
There is nothing wrong with aiming for a title or not, but I want to point out that the corresponding titles you are aiming for are rather very time-consuming. As for me, loot-scaling hasn't affected my income at all. Out of curiousity, may I ask how do you farm?

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 03:50 - 635
Vanquish > raptors > UW.

Money from the first two = entry for UW, a few consumables for vanquishing = nothing left over.

Before loot scaling I used to farm UW, Dragon moss and stone scale kirin and could make up to 50k daily.

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

23 Mar 2008 at 03:57 - 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Vanquish > raptors > UW.

Money from the first two = entry for UW, a few consumables for vanquishing = nothing left over.

Before loot scaling I used to farm UW, Dragon moss and stone scale kirin and could make up to 50k daily.
Generally, you don't really need to use consumables unless it's areas in EOTN.

I'm guessing you are doing 600/smite for UW; if so, why don't you try Temple runs?

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...mned_600/Smite

As the runner of the group, you can make about 20k per hour. Even if you are just one of the people who are getting the run, it is still possible to earn 5k-10k per hour.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Mar 2008 at 04:14 - 637
I solo UW with elly, no one else needed, and you need consumables vs Jade Brotherhood in factions. Dragons stomp, triple chop / cyclone axe, ancestors rage mobs.

Everywhere else Celerities FTW. I cant vanq without them, I use one in every area.

And why assume im a monk when my character profesion says E?

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

23 Mar 2008 at 04:25 - 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
I solo UW with elly, no one else needed, and you need consumables vs Jade Brotherhood in factions. Dragons stomp, triple chop / cyclone axe, ancestors rage mobs.

Everywhere else Celerities FTW. I cant vanq without them, I use one in every area.
That will be too expensive. Relevantly, if consumables didn't exist, then you wouldn't spend money to make these consumables. In other words, wouldn't you have more money then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
And why assume im a monk when my character profesion says E?
Just because your character profession says E, it doesn't imply that you don't have a character whose profession is a Monk.

Kashrlyyk

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

23 Mar 2008 at 05:57 - 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy
It is still possible to solo farm as the improvements of AI and anti-farming code have been removed, but with the addition of the loot scaling, the loots will be reduced. In other words, the enjoyment to solo farms is not affected, but the profit is. In short, loot-scaling does not affect satisfication to people's enjoyment of playing the game, but it affects the satisfication to people's greed to farming for profits.

Does anyone have an argument that isn't based on mere greed?
Earning money is fun! The faster the better! The rewards, just like presents at birthdays, are part of the fun.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

23 Mar 2008 at 13:48 - 640
The people on this thread are spoiled and impatient. You're only satisfied doing things the quick and easy way. The fact that Anet let you get your way for so long is their fault though, so I largely blame them for spoiling you.

Here's a thought... Earn money the normal way. Stop looking for quick fixes and loopholes in the game to make your money. Yes, the notion of a single character can clear entire areas for insane amounts of cash is a loophole in the game. It was not the intent of the designers of the game, and they addressed the issue.

Play the game as it was intended and be happy you were permitted instant-gratification solo cash farming for so long.

/ADAMANTLY NOT SIGNED