Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?
Aera Lure
Actually, I was never a hard core farmer, or even an intermediate farmer back in the day. I simply went out when I felt like it and farmed some - because it was fun - and made enough also to save and buy things I liked. The economy, while it has never been perfect in this game, was far better back then. Everyone had more to spend. It was far easier to sell pretty much anything. I dont know where people are coming from saying only the hard core farmers benefited.
Saving/making money now is like pulling teeth, so I stopped. I simply only played for titles, until I stopped altogether.
Saving/making money now is like pulling teeth, so I stopped. I simply only played for titles, until I stopped altogether.
bhavv
Savio you just major fail on this thread. But its fun to laugh at your posts. Keep making them please.
If a casual player that by YOUR definition doesnt farm, then they will never be able to afford a frog sceptre or emerald blade regardless of whether we have loot scaling or not. And I can play the game great without having to ever buy items off other players, yet you complain about the cost of fortitude mods lol.
And end game greens are not bare essentials. Guess what my most used weapon is? Droknars energy storage staff, free for completing EOTN.
Farming is a free choice whether or not you are a casual player. Anyone can do it and there are plenty of guides explaining how to.
Its just funny that people that call themselves casual players and refuse to farm complain that they cant afford rare weapons lol.
If a casual player that by YOUR definition doesnt farm, then they will never be able to afford a frog sceptre or emerald blade regardless of whether we have loot scaling or not. And I can play the game great without having to ever buy items off other players, yet you complain about the cost of fortitude mods lol.
And end game greens are not bare essentials. Guess what my most used weapon is? Droknars energy storage staff, free for completing EOTN.
Farming is a free choice whether or not you are a casual player. Anyone can do it and there are plenty of guides explaining how to.
Its just funny that people that call themselves casual players and refuse to farm complain that they cant afford rare weapons lol.
R.Shayne
Runes took a dive in prices when player could pick what they wanted to salvage off of drops. Had nothing to do with loot scaling, it was simple supply and demand.
The only demand now is for rare or new skins, yeah all the power trader can go cry about how no one will buy their Q11 - 14%^50 Rare old school Longsword anymore.
It is pretty much like the skill updates, learn to roll with it.
Guild Wars was marketed as the casual players game whom if they had 30 minutes could accomplish something (Was this in PC Gamer or an On-line interview, can not remember). Loot Scaling took that away and did nothing to stop the bots.
I consider myself to be a hardcore farmer, I couldn't care less about loot scaling, doesn't affect me, I am after rare drops and equipment I want on my character. I am concerned about the 500k I sunk into the economy lately buying Lockpicks and Z-Keys (Usually my gold goes to gold sinks - Armor is a big one)
The only demand now is for rare or new skins, yeah all the power trader can go cry about how no one will buy their Q11 - 14%^50 Rare old school Longsword anymore.
It is pretty much like the skill updates, learn to roll with it.
Guild Wars was marketed as the casual players game whom if they had 30 minutes could accomplish something (Was this in PC Gamer or an On-line interview, can not remember). Loot Scaling took that away and did nothing to stop the bots.
I consider myself to be a hardcore farmer, I couldn't care less about loot scaling, doesn't affect me, I am after rare drops and equipment I want on my character. I am concerned about the 500k I sunk into the economy lately buying Lockpicks and Z-Keys (Usually my gold goes to gold sinks - Armor is a big one)
Scary
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Shayne
Runes took a dive in prices when player could pick what they wanted to salvage off of drops. Had nothing to do with loot scaling, it was simple supply and demand.
The only demand now is for rare or new skins, yeah all the power trader can go cry about how no one will buy their Q11 - 14%^50 Rare old school Longsword anymore. It is pretty much like the skill updates, learn to roll with it. Guild Wars was marketed as the casual players game whom if they had 30 minutes could accomplish something (Was this in PC Gamer or an On-line interview, can not remember). Loot Scaling took that away and did nothing to stop the bots. I consider myself to be a hardcore farmer, I couldn't care less about loot scaling, doesn't affect me, I am after rare drops and equipment I want on my character. I am concerned about the 500k I sunk into the economy lately buying Lockpicks and Z-Keys (Usually my gold goes to gold sinks - Armor is a big one) |
And one indeed who says... LS isnt a bout only getting more mony.
It just brings more fun into the game..
Uhm thats what I can make up out of your words
1 thing I disagree... and that the rune thing. The superior absorption
just didnt drop from 90K to 400 g just for the demand.....
Thats something Anet did.
sindex
You know I hate to say this but once A-net implements something, it usually stays for the overhaul. Unless they do something within a weeks timeframe, when that first change was implemented.
Bride of the Atom
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterSnowblind
I used to enjoy playing the game by myself when none of my friends are around. Loot scaling sucked a lot of the fun out of that, removing it now would definitely encourage me to play more.
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Cab Tastic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
Prices on anything desirable will go up - not just rare items, but runes and mats too. Removing loot scaling helps hardcore farmers but has a negative impact on anyone not hardcore farming. Casual farmers will be happy to get more money but won't be so happy when they notice prices going up.
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Masseur
/notsign as it was introduced mostly to encourage bigger parties and not reward the solo'rs, not necessarily bots.
Awakener
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masseur
/notsign as it was introduced mostly to encourage bigger parties and not reward the solo'rs, not necessarily bots.
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yes there are still Guild Group parties though..
Abedeus
Didn't you notice, Masseur, that solo farming still exists? It's just performed by those ,,elite'' people farming on HM. Casual players can't farm on HM.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
Casual players can't farm on HM.
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This thread is so similar to the XMP one, and I wonder whether it's going to end up the same way, in nothingness. (but it was interesting!)
Dronte
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldin
But we're not talking about full parties! We're talking about solo farmers.
Besides, full parties have the same turnout without LS if I'm correct, so removing it would just help everyone. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_groovy
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As Topic starter I must remind everybody: LS effects everybody. 1/8 & 8/8. Would everybody stop saying that only farmers should oppose LS. I'm getting a little bit tired of having to keep reminding here |
Quote:
Originally Posted by kartmaster
LS has NO effect on full parties. Period.
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RhanoctJocosa
remove lootscaling so i can lolfarm grawls outside of folly <3333333333333333
Longasc
People just want money faster for the grind titles:
Beer, Sweets, Party Items, Vanity Armor. And they all want to get this FAST and EASY.
Who is hardcore enough to do it really deserves to farm his ass off. It is a totally unfun activity, and asking to remove loot scaling to make such things easier is just a request to lessen the pain.
This is the wrong approach, people should be given incentives to play GW for fun and better reasons than such pure and primitive grinder titles, because when it comes to somewhat more meaningful grind, there are better games out there.
Beer, Sweets, Party Items, Vanity Armor. And they all want to get this FAST and EASY.
Who is hardcore enough to do it really deserves to farm his ass off. It is a totally unfun activity, and asking to remove loot scaling to make such things easier is just a request to lessen the pain.
This is the wrong approach, people should be given incentives to play GW for fun and better reasons than such pure and primitive grinder titles, because when it comes to somewhat more meaningful grind, there are better games out there.
reetkever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longasc
People just want money faster for the grind titles:
Beer, Sweets, Party Items, Vanity Armor. And they all want to get this FAST and EASY. Who is hardcore enough to do it really deserves to farm his ass off. It is a totally unfun activity, and asking to remove loot scaling to make such things easier is just a request to lessen the pain. This is the wrong approach, people should be given incentives to play GW for fun and better reasons than such pure and primitive grinder titles, because when it comes to somewhat more meaningful grind, there are better games out there. |
Well, I, for one, really enjoyed the farming. It was fun to do a Griffon run once in a while (Talking about Griffons, without bots, the insects should go away, too), alone or with a friend.
Also, back when loot scaling wasn't there, there were no titles and people still farmed. It's not about the titles at all, the titles are just another extra thing you can do when having the game beaten.
ValaOfTheFens
Wouldn't ANet have to make NM harder again if they did away with lootscaling?
Stolen Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens
Wouldn't ANet have to make NM harder again if they did away with lootscaling?
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"Ok, you removed loot scaling, but you made the mobs too smart! Make them easier to kill!" "Petition to re-remove AoE scatter!!!"
ValaOfTheFens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
lol, I could see the threads now.
"Ok, you removed loot scaling, but you made the mobs too smart! Make them easier to kill!" "Petition to re-remove AoE scatter!!!" |
Angelic Upstart
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens
Wouldn't ANet have to make NM harder again if they did away with lootscaling?
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That wouldnt be a bad thing imo, if they did it intelligently, because lets face it there not a lot in PvE thats hard now, even in HM.
reetkever
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens
Wouldn't ANet have to make NM harder again if they did away with lootscaling?
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No, there's hard mode for this. Also, A-Net can't make the game harder without making monsters act like circus clowns like they do in HM (lvl 30 monsters that outclass me in every way run away from me -.-).
Loot Scaling was a counter against bots. If bots are not a problem anymore, there is no point to the loot scaling. Making NM harder doesn't have anything to do with it, except if you want to counter solo-farming.
Stolen Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by reetkever
Loot Scaling was a counter against bots. If bots are not a problem anymore, there is no point to the loot scaling. Making NM harder doesn't have anything to do with it, except if you want to counter solo-farming.
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Loot scaling wasn't just a counter against bots. It was also a counter against hard core farmers that got rich by merching the white junk items. Now people are asking for it to be reverted. I don't really care either way, but I don't see it happening.
Quote:
A major theme of our most recent update is that the game should be friendlier and more rewarding for casual players, including casual solo farmers, and that the most advanced farmers should differentiate themselves from the crowd not through the amount of gold and common loot that they farm directly from monsters, but instead through the amount of gold that they can get from selling rare items to other players (directly or through traders). That's a very important distinction. Advanced farmers are always going to earn more money than their more casual counterparts. There's nothing wrong with that. When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone. They're facilitating trade, and the gold they acquire from doing so is gold that was already in the game. It's only when solo farming introduces a huge influx of new gold into the economy that it becomes a problem. |
Sven788
This is what I don't like:
People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players.
I worked hard for my money.
People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players.
I worked hard for my money.
reetkever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
Loot scaling wasn't just a counter against bots. It was also a counter against hard core farmers that got rich by merching the white junk items. Now people are asking for it to be reverted. I don't really care either way, but I don't see it happening.
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Hardcore farmers don't merch white junk. Hardcore farmers go to UW, get themselves 20 ecto's and sell them for 10K each to get major profit. It's the casual farmers that sell the white junk cause they can't farm other stuff. People don't get rich by farming trolls. Unless you, of course, farm 20 hours a day.
Also, this quote about how they thought Loot Scaling was gonna turn out is so wrong:
Quote:
A major theme of our most recent update is that the game should be friendlier and more rewarding for casual players, including casual solo farmers, and that the most advanced farmers should differentiate themselves from the crowd not through the amount of gold and common loot that they farm directly from monsters, but instead through the amount of gold that they can get from selling rare items to other players (directly or through traders). |
With a trade system like the one we have now, it's impossible to buy/sell items in outposts on a quick rate. Also, because of stuff like Inscriptions, 99%of the weapons became worthless and it's better and faster to just sell them to the merch. If by chance someone that NEVER farms finds a golden weapon, he can't do anything with it cause it's worth nothing anymore.
Quote:
That's a very important distinction. Advanced farmers are always going to earn more money than their more casual counterparts. There's nothing wrong with that. When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone. They're facilitating trade, and the gold they acquire from doing so is gold that was already in the game. It's only when solo farming introduces a huge influx of new gold into the economy that it becomes a problem. |
And it becomes a problem how? With the many goldsinks we have in the game these days, we NEED a huge influx of new gold. Also, I don't really care how much gold an other random player can make a day. If it's about prices, the buyer makes the price in the end. If nobody wants to buy an item for 100K, the item will become worth less. Unless nobody sells either, which is not the case since without Loot Scaling more items will drop and the economy will flood with all sorts of weapons.
Buzzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven788
This is what I don't like:
People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players. I worked hard for my money. |
Stolen Souls
Just want to make it clear that I'm not defending them...as I said I don't really care either way. Just stating that this is their stance on it, and I honestly don't see them reverting back to what they saw as a problem. :/
mr_groovy
Put it this way.
Every Pre LS farmer now is :
a) Stopped playing GW.
b) Grinding titles.
c) An ursan doa junky.
Everyone's money is already worthless because it's hard to come by. Why do you think that nothing above req 9 sells? People don't have a lot to spend, so they won't purchase it.
Every Pre LS farmer now is :
a) Stopped playing GW.
b) Grinding titles.
c) An ursan doa junky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzer
Everyone's money will be worth less. Not just yours. So it doesn't really matter.
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R.Shayne
How about removing loot scaling from normal mode and keeping it in hard mode? The casaul farmer can still go out and kill a bunch of low end things to get money for titles and the advance farmers goes out to find rares.
As a hardcore farmer I don't even bother picking up whites unless I need feeler when I am done farming an area (meaning I have a couple empty slots).
As a hardcore farmer I don't even bother picking up whites unless I need feeler when I am done farming an area (meaning I have a couple empty slots).
Sethellington
i've been thinking about this since they introduced the "report" function and you could report bots. you don't see any in altrumn ruin anymore, there used to be atleast 20 every time i was there before. same in rilohn refuge. same in granite citadel.
just because some smartass has written a program that puts normal players out of pocket, doesn't mean that normal players should feel the same force of loot scaling.
they should feel the pain, not us.
big thumbs up on the crack down of RTM
/signed, i want my trolls back.
just because some smartass has written a program that puts normal players out of pocket, doesn't mean that normal players should feel the same force of loot scaling.
they should feel the pain, not us.
big thumbs up on the crack down of RTM
/signed, i want my trolls back.
hallomik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
Loot scaling wasn't just a counter against bots. It was also a counter against hard core farmers that got rich by merching the white junk items. Now people are asking for it to be reverted. I don't really care either way, but I don't see it happening.
Though it obviously didn't work out QUITE as they intended, this has been their stance on it from the start. :/ |
However, I'm not sure how you can say things didn't work out as intended. It seems to me the economy we have is exactly what they were shooting for. Farmers can farm golds, greens, ectos, etc. to re-sell to others, but the amount of money in the economy is reduced making all non-farmers relatively more prosperous. I'd say that is exactly what has happened.
Everyone talks about the economy being "broken" or "ruined". One of the biggest problems with nearly every MMO out there except GW is massive price inflation. I was listening to a Virgin Worlds podcast a few weeks ago and they were saying how price inflation is one problem MMO's haven't figured out how to solve. I wanted to yell thru my I-Pod that one online RPG has figured out how to stop runaway inflation.
Do we really want to be like every other MMO out there? Keep Guild Wars unique. Keep Loot Scaling.
Stolen Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
However, I'm not sure how you can say things didn't work out as intended.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
It seems to me the economy we have is exactly what they were shooting for.
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reetkever
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
However, I'm not sure how you can say things didn't work out as intended. It seems to me the economy we have is exactly what they were shooting for. Farmers can farm golds, greens, ectos, etc. to re-sell to others, but the amount of money in the economy is reduced making all non-farmers relatively more prosperous. I'd say that is exactly what has happened.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
Everyone talks about the economy being "broken" or "ruined". One of the biggest problems with nearly every MMO out there except GW is massive price inflation. I was listening to a Virgin Worlds podcast a few weeks ago and they were saying how price inflation is one problem MMO's haven't figured out how to solve. I wanted to yell thru my I-Pod that one online RPG has figured out how to stop runaway inflation.
Do we really want to be like every other MMO out there? Keep Guild Wars unique. Keep Loot Scaling. |
Guild Wars dealt with the inflation the wrong way. They made people poor in a market with fixed prices. Sure, some weapons will become cheaper, but weapons will always become cheaper as long as people farm them. The more items enter the market, the more people will have them, the lower the price will become cause the demand is less.
If nobody farmed Raptors and Corsairs, the Ele Sword and Colossal Scimitar would still be 100K + ecto's now - loot scaling or no loot scaling.
Stolen Souls
Quote:
Originally Posted by reetkever
Inflation doesn't matter in a market with fixed prices.
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Quote:
Guild Wars dealt with the inflation the wrong way. They made people poor in a market with fixed prices. |
ValaOfTheFens
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
Everyone talks about the economy being "broken" or "ruined". One of the biggest problems with nearly every MMO out there except GW is massive price inflation. I was listening to a Virgin Worlds podcast a few weeks ago and they were saying how price inflation is one problem MMO's haven't figured out how to solve. I wanted to yell thru my I-Pod that one online RPG has figured out how to stop runaway inflation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
Do we really want to be like every other MMO out there? Keep Guild Wars unique. Keep Loot Scaling.
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reetkever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
Inflation DOES matter. Not everything has a fixed price. Crafting materials, dyes, mods, and weapons, for starters. Why would anyone want to go back to 12k ectos. 40k sword mods?
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In fact, ecto's, dyes, materials and weapon mods have nothing to do with the Loot Scaling at all since they are on the Exemption list. Loot Scaling made prices of stuff go up (Like Ecto's, the prices for them raised with like 2K a few hours after the Loot Scaling came). The Exemption list is the one that makes the prices go down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
So, what did they do wrong? How would you have dealt with it? And I beg to differ about making everyone poor. After loot scaling I'm doing just fine, and I don't farm 24/7.
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hallomik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
Inflation DOES matter. Not everything has a fixed price. Crafting materials, dyes, mods, and weapons, for starters. Why would anyone want to go back to 12k ectos. 40k sword mods?
So, what did they do wrong? How would you have dealt with it? And I beg to differ about making everyone poor. After loot scaling I'm doing just fine, and I don't farm 24/7. |
With respect to Raptor caves, remember that pre-LS, Anti-farming code kicks in on your 4th or 5th zone. At that point, no ele swords would drop for you at all until you got the code off you somehow. Sure, you could farm Raptors repeatedly and merch all your whites and buy it eventually from some very lucky player. But in a Pre-LS world, items like ele swords would be very, very expensive. Today, it is possible to farm it or buy it at a much more reasonable price.
garethporlest18
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
Exactly. A guildmate of mine who just started playing bought a req 9 max sword with decent mods in Lions Arch for 3k. She would never have been able to do that in the pre-LS economy.
With respect to Raptor caves, remember that pre-LS, Anti-farming code kicks in on your 4th or 5th zone. At that point, no ele swords would drop for you at all until you got the code off you somehow. Sure, you could farm Raptors repeatedly and merch all your whites and buy it eventually from some very lucky player. But in a Pre-LS world, items like ele swords would be very, very expensive. Today, it is possible to farm it or buy it at a much more reasonable price. |
They also don't have to put the anti-farming code back in if they remove Loot Scaling. If they don't want everyone to have stacks of money then they can just reduce drop rates of certain things. I mean you'd be making decent money off the gold drops and white drops so it wouldn't matter if some of the sword prices rose 3-8k (which would probably be the max).
Gli
This topic suddenly strikes me as funny.
We have people arguing advanced game economics with people who only care about trolls dropping more raven staffs.
Pointless, so I'm bowing out.
We have people arguing advanced game economics with people who only care about trolls dropping more raven staffs.
Pointless, so I'm bowing out.
reetkever
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
Exactly. A guildmate of mine who just started playing bought a req 9 max sword with decent mods in Lions Arch for 3k. She would never have been able to do that in the pre-LS economy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallomik
With respect to Raptor caves, remember that pre-LS, Anti-farming code kicks in on your 4th or 5th zone. At that point, no ele swords would drop for you at all until you got the code off you somehow. Sure, you could farm Raptors repeatedly and merch all your whites and buy it eventually from some very lucky player. But in a Pre-LS world, items like ele swords would be very, very expensive. Today, it is possible to farm it or buy it at a much more reasonable price.
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I still get no drops after my first few Raptor Runs. A-Net might have removed what they called 'Anti-Farming Code', but they still messed around with drops without telling us. Also, before the Loot Scaling the Anti-Farm Code wasn't that bad compared to the 'Anti-Killing-Monsters-At-The-Same-Time' code we have now.
In a pre-LS world, everyone would have an Elemental Sword now cause Raptors are one of the most easiest farms.
hallomik
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens
*sigh* Having a 6th finger or 3rd nipple can make a person unique but not in a way you'd necessarily want. So the idea of being unique for its own sake is just plain garbage.
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However, it remains that LS has fixed inflation, and made the game a lot more affordable for non-farmers.
Normal-Mode Troll farmers, I will admit, have been hurt. There are many, many other farms out there and it is quite possible to make plenty of money. Please visit the farming section on Guru if you don't believe me. Admittedly, you will probably need to complete the game to get to some of the better spots, but is that really so much to ask?
hallomik
Quote:
Originally Posted by reetkever
Also, before the Loot Scaling the Anti-Farm Code wasn't that bad compared to the 'Anti-Killing-Monsters-At-The-Same-Time' code we have now.
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