Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

It proves enough. That Anet implimented it for the reasons they saw as a problem.


Lower prices are what Anet wanted. ty for proving the point.


We can keep arguing infinately. Just gotta ask youself...what's the point? It's the same as the other big argument going on right now...which is "Should we be allowed 7 heros?". Some want it, some don't...can keep on arguing, but the bottom line is, it will not be implemented.

It only proves how little Anet understands about the basic economy and ingame price levels in their own game.

There was no inflation. Making the whole point of LS only more questionable.

Loot Scaling was put in place to make it harder for people to make gold and to combat bots; this is spelled out plainly enough in the article posted above. They said it was because they wanted to prevent "a flood of new gold into the economy" from solo farming and bots. But they never said why. Why is having tons of gold available to people a bad thing?

One can only assume that it's because this huge increase in available Gold would keep the prices of items up. And this was certainly true, before Hard Mode. Remember, Loot Scaling was implemented the same time as Hard Mode, so the effects of either one individually on the economy would have been impossible to determine. Just look at the prices of items before the Loot Scaling/Hard Mode update:

Sup Vigor/Sup Abs/30HP Pommels for 100K? 15^50 weapons costing 80-90K+ each? This is purely ridiculous, and clearly Anet wanted it to stop. And it would seem that they did just that. Look at the economy in GW today (just look at the relevant thread(s) on the front page). The #1 "complaint" is that previously rare items and upgrades are ridiculously common and easy to get, and this is driving the prices down (look at Sup Vigor runes at the merchant).

But why are these items so common? Surely loot scaling didn't magically increase the supply of these items; I mean, the whole point was to make it harder to earn gold. So why this huge increase in supply? Oh right, Hard Mode, with all the chests and higher level monster drops. Completely unrelated to Loot Scaling, this huge increase in previously rare items single-handedly drove prices down. This was only compounded by the addition of GW:EN, with dungeons and high level chests dropping even more (what have now become previously rare) items.

What would happen if they got rid of Loot Scaling? Prices would suddenly skyrocket again? Ridiculous. Supply would still be as high as ever, and demand would be exactly the same (which is constantly decreasing with time anyway, unless you still believe just as many new accounts are being created now as previously). Sure people will keep making new characters, and they will need items, but these players already have money, as well as any items that they want passed through storage, and friends to help them.

So what will actually happen? For casual players, getting collector drops will be easier for sure, as well as common materials and gold for armor. But more noticeably, and the issue behind Loot Scaling, people who solo-farm will make more money again. They'll be able to buy more of those select few vanity items that still have high price tags, and they will be all the happier for it. This will surely increase the popularity of farming, especially in Hard Mode (which didn't exist before Loot Scaling). You know what this means? Even more high end Gold drops entering the economy.

Now, why do we still have Loot Scaling again? Right, the second reason, to make bots inefficient. Now we come to this thread. With Anet taking a stronger stance on bots and Real-money trading, is Loot Scaling really necessary to combat bots? If Anet actually comes through with what they are claiming, then absolutely not.

Loot scaling, as an individual update without Hard Mode attached, helped no one. As was stated in the article, you either made the same amount of gold as before, or if you were a farmer, made less; this was Anet's goal to reduce the amount of gold in the game. Removing loot scaling will, in exactly the same manner, hurt no one. You will either make the same amount of money as before, or if you choose to farm with your play time, make more. And with prices for items at all time lows and no decrease in item supply in sight, this increase in gold will never see prices reach the ridiculous highs they were before loot scaling and hard mode were introduced.

-End-

totally wrong on all counts....

players have been bitching about the good old days when they could make tons of gold an hour and items were scarce so they could make a fortune both ways.

1. gold drops straight

2. selling it for the highest bidder with tons of gold also.

i did not want a major vigor but i was not willing to pay an additional close to 5K each for 9 health points for the superior vigor..........35K was a bargain for a major back then.

good old days??.........hell no

inflation is scarce supply being chased after by tons of excess money supply which is EXACTLY what we had

I hope you realise that: 1) Anet is the only one able to see the "GW economy" as they're the only ones able to see each and every accounts (most people think "GW economy" as what they and their friends say, plus things they read on GWG); 2) LS was introduced as a means to tackle specifics threats to the economy, not as a panacea, and the reasons why it failed has probable nothing to do with economy.

You appear to be mistaken over a number of things.

I am merely asking for some evidence of this rampant inflation that required ANet to impose the loot nerf. There is none, I'll say YET AGAIN, prices were LOWER before the nerf than ever before and falling. That is DEFLATION. So what was the great problem that required this mega fun nerf?

That's something you'd have to ask Anet...not me. Maybe the introduction of Hard Mode? Could you IMAGINE HM Raptor farming without LS? :/ Maybe to further drive prices down (which it achieved)?

Anet saw a problem. Anet implimented LS to fix said problem. Said problem was fixed (in Anet's eyes).

Just watch what happens to the economy when GW2 comes out. Or even when GW2 gets a firm release date....

Better yet, watch the gw economy in 5 months from now.

Supply is greater then demand on golds. Aka people will sell almost nothing.
People should make money how now? Only through getting the rarest drops, while title grinding >.>.

I play GW for entertainment, not the elite armor, or tormented weapons, I dont care what my character looks like. What's the point of having lots of money,when you've already gotten everything you'll ever need? Why go solo farming for money, when your gonna waste it on a complete duplicate of what you already have except for the skin (same mods, different look)? The only gold i've ever really needed was for max armor on my characters, and weapons. Why should i care if lootscaling is removed or not? My point is...GW is a game, its for entertainment, not wealth In-game. IMO Solo Farming=boring Group Farming=fun. So I do make the little money I need by going out into an explorable area, and killing things, because its fun...I would rather be poor and have fun rather then have alot of wealth and be bored solo farming.

Why are people like you consistantly insisting that prices were lower before LS when they were NOT? They may have been lower than some points of GW's lifespan but they were NEVER lower than they have been since LS' implementation.

The so called "low" prices before LS were ridiculously high. If that's supposed to be low, then it's clear that something needed to be done to fix the inflated high prices.

This is ridiculous. I can see the same high profile farmers/traders whining about loot scaling. Anyone can clearly see it's based on greed.

He's insisting that prices were lower because they were lower.

Lol... then, 80k for a +30hp mod is not low. 5k, now this is low and I like it.

Yea yea, more supply from HM, chests whatever bla bla bla. I really couldn't care less. What I know is before LS stuff are not affordable, unless you make it a point to farm (like full time PVE). Now, there is no need to farm and I can still give my toons nice stuff by playing the game normally and PVP with my time.

So yeah, to hell with farmers for all I care.

you mean 30k to about 8 k for +30 right?

Back then 30k an hour was easy shit. Now 8k for farming is just barely within reach.

As stated, the idea behind loot scaling was to lower the relative prices of rare items, thus making them more accessible to the general populace. It succeeded in the 'price' part, less so with the 'access' part, because most items went from high end to below low end (though that was not caused solely by LS. Instead, there were several effects pushing in the same direction).

Which part of the prospective loot is worth selling to other players right now? Remember that time is money. If it takes - on average - longer to sell the item than getting the same amount of gold through other means then the item is not worth selling. Based on that criterion, the following items are worth selling

• tomes (regular and elite)
• perfect fortitude mods
• perfect sundering mods (for noobs)
• perfect martial arts weapons enchanting mods
• "Aptitude not Attitude" and "Forget Me Not" inscriptions
• various regular and special event collectables

Trying to sell pretty much everything else is a big fat waste of time (stuff like minis and runes are not listed because minis are not loot and runes can be sold to a trader - the loss of profit is more than gained back through zero selling time). There are some valuable skins that fetch an unproportional amount of gold but 99.9% of all rares never enter the player market because they are merchant fodder.

The consequence of this is that the entire economy has become a big lottery (instead of a small lottery that it used to be). Any method of steady, reliable income preferred by the large 'middle class' of players who are neither completely casual nor truly hardcore provides a very meagre livelihood. Only hardcore playing makes high ticket items a reliable income. The truly casual players don't even see any difference. Thus it was the middle class that got shafted by LS.

Go read this thread:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0225311&page=9

People are making up to 20k per hour farming right now. I believe them, since I make about 15k per hour and I'm far from the best farmer out there.

With that in mind, why are people wanting loot scaling removed? Because you can't have fun unless you make 30k per hour farming? Lazy?

Didn't they ban those before also? what exactly has changed that makes it ok to remove loot scaling?

Imo, people got round the lootscaling, ectos and golds werent added to lootscaling. Farming has changed a bit, but people still do farm, the days that you could farm ~40k in an hour are over, now you will have to settle with a mere 10k, get over it. Not such a big deal imo...

A question for the experienced people (venterans and knowledgeable power-traders/GW economists):

Is the actual high-end tier of the GW economy made of people who got tons of money from the pre-LS days? (please, leave aside flames and biased opinions)

I see so many people saying "remove LS so that we can farm again" than this simple fact makes me wonder if LS is actually protecting "us" (the non-l33t people) from even more madness on "high-end items", and the possible this would have on the rest of the economy (when people get this unbelieavable amount of money, they can buy "non-high-end" stuff so easily that it can impact "us"). I'm very tempted so say no because of that, but it's difficult to find the truth in the middle of this mess . (hallomik, pull me to the dark side )

= 100 hours if you wan't a set of fow.....

veteran non power farmer/trader since early beta

tons of farming gold was flooding the economy causing massive inflation.

examples in real experience

1. superior absorb locked at 100k
2. superior vigor a bargain at 75k major vigor which i bought a bargain at 35k minor vigor 15k up.

equiping a 55 was a 299k-260k investment with that -50 offhand a bargain at 50k and up

all minor runes 3k-8k majors same mark up

i sold black dyes for 27.5K each not a set

so i do not want those super hardcore farmer loving days back.

Anet tracks the entire playerbase not a tiny elite site splinter.

i am casual and play for fun not gold.

every time Anet fixed an exploit or made some items cheaper and easier to get you could read the screams of im gonna be pooorrr now from the farmers.

i started enjoying the new shineys Anet just gave me at the expense of the elite i have it you dond i win players

So, a month of regular play, at most, for those for whom GW is their main recreational activity. A bit longer, of course, for those who only play an hour or two a night and maybe 3 hours on their days off. Where's the problem?

And, Ork Pride, if you consider actually playing through the storyline to be a grindfest, perhaps you should switch to a different game - one, like WoW, that doesn't have a story.

Just like to point out something for those who cry the casual can't make Money
Started in March

Since all the Crying about LS and how a Casual gamer can't make money and blah blah blah, I started a small experiment with my final Pve character, so far I have gotten 45k from just playing the game, I am up to Nundu Bay in NF, I haven't touch a single Quest in the other games, and I didn't take Mats out of my Storage to buy my max armor, only reason why I haven't continued my little test i am also going for Survivor, so far my test shows even a casual players can get 15k armor with out grind......... the game rewards gamers that play regular without farming GRIND, all this crying is funny to me because i like LS.

So your telling me that if I want to get money in this game I should play the game? Ok tell me if you have all the titles you ever wanted, did all the quests you could do, and already did all the missions with your char. How do you earn money with that char? Do everyhing over again just for the sake of making money through playing the game?

Should one play elite-missions over again, and again and again?

What will happen to the market in a couple of months? When all the prices of all the new and shiney weapons are at mediocre lvl? How does one make enough money then? Perhaps you can sell your req 9 fully decked rare skin for 5k. Perhaps for even less then that. Prolly you have to merch 90% of your golds because they won't sell anyways. (unlike the 80% now ).

Just how much money do you need?

heh, yeah....how absurd, right?

Are we still talking about casual players here? or are we back to personal greed and wanting more, and wanting it faster? If we're still talking about casuals, I am confused. A casual player would never have, or hope to have, all of that. And if you need more money, you farm, like everyone else does...and make money...like everyone else does. >_>

When LS was introduced most if not all of the farmers just started soloing HM, same drops if not better than NM before LS.
I find it ironic, that there is so much hate for farmers, with people going on and on about farmers QQing because they cant make whatever k per hour..and even going so far as to brand them lazy lol.

Hello?

Most farmers are now rich enough to not have to farm they have their money and rares etc, for the most part pre LS just gave everyone the chance to earn a bit of cash, it didnt force anyone into farming 24/7.

Besides back in the day if you wanted anything you had to work a bit for it, now its given to people on a plate and still they moan .

Mr. Groovy, congratulations on effectively finishing the game with your favorite character.

YOU DON'T *NEED* ANYTHING. If the only minigame left for you in GW is "Get Richer", and you don't want to powertrade (best moneymaker) or run (second best), then grab your farming equipment and suck it up, buttercup. You are not the target audience any more. You are not who the game caters to. That noob in mismatched collector armor standing beside you in Kamadan? The one trying to talk to your minipet? HE is the target audience. The game caters to HIM. Everybody else has been thrown a few shiny bones to keep busy with since they love the game too much to go elsewhere.

this guy got hang on something merch fotter won't hurt the market but selling to many rares making them common will....

[QUOTE]if you are through with playing the game but still hang on to get more gold/epeen items that is sort of like the dog who chased the car and grabbed onto the bumper

*ive got it now what am i going to do with it?*

only if it is fun and you want to

what will happen is a whole playerbase will have nice stuff and a tiny hardcore splinter elite group will join all the tiny splinters that have left before you going way back to the levelmonkeys/instant UAS groups

No. People don't hate all farmers. People just hate the famers who want the whole system catered to them by removing LS.

That's bull. LS enables players to just play the game without farming and still earn some wealth. Pre-LS, pretty much anyone who wanted to buy non-fixed-priced items had to farm just to keep up with the inflated prices.

That's idiotic. With that "logic" you could say anti-LS people like you are the ones moaning and "asking for things handed to them on a plate" by asking to remove LS, AKA. making it a lot easier for you to get loot.

LS makes that no one gets more than with parties by soloing unless he does so in HM. And even in HM it is not so much more, just faster since all monsters will likely target a single character and die faster.

That's not bad. Farming now is not a requirement to get stuff. Just a little 'extra' for those with more time to spend.

The solo farmers on here crying for no LS need to pop a ritalin. There's no longer instant crazy money. But it's *OKAY* because stuff is cheap now. It sounds like the whiners here want both crazy money and crazy cheap prices.

That's just... crazy...

LS is good for the game IMO...

Not to mention that the game should not allow players to run the hardest areas in the game with a single character. That was never the intent of the designers!

He's the type that needs to make enough money to show off in Guild wars, he wants to have FOW, rare weapons, high price mini pets, and stacks upon stacks of ectos, and even with all that he probably would cry to anet about something, some people will never be satisfy with what they have in this game.

Hint: online polls are at best misunderstood, at worse completely wrong. It's very easy to create accounts for pushing your agenda via a poll, I've seen it many times (even people rebooting their modems and attempting to take all the IP addresses their ISP is willing to give ...).

because a poll in this topic would be about as usefull as the soul reaping thread poll was. All it showed was a vast majority of people voting without a clue as to what they are really voting for.

Wow You got me all figured out Good job a+, genius.

I started this thread in the sole purpose of getting more E-peen, and stacks upon stacks of ecto's. To bad ecto's are already excluded from LS, and the drop rate wouldn't improve by removing it ...

I started this thread because one of the purposes of LS was to fight of botting, and gold companies. Now if rmt would work to diminish the gold spammers for 80% to 90%, would it then be fare to give back to the community, and let people earn there money more easy?

I've never even implied that it was only for farming purposes. Even while playing trough the game normally would earn you more money without LS.

Mr Groovy, do you have statistical proof that insta-death-scaling exists? Because I am not convinced. And without this "IDS" LS has absolutely zero effect on players in parties.

"Everybody knows" doesn't count as proof. I don't want perceptions; I want numbers. In parties, solo, intervals between each mob death starting at <1 second and increasing to 60 seconds and beyond, repeated enough times enough ways to be statistically significant.

Otherwise, STFU and limit your argument to the real issue everyone is arguing about: LS makes solo farming suck, as was the plan. People who never solo farm are unaffected.

Hmm, let me see now, because its true?

Prices for many things are lower post loot nerf, I never clainmed they weren't, though I will say that prices for minor runes and crafting materials are higher since the nerf,t hat is a direct result. The lower prices in general are certainly down to the over supply of golds/mods with the introduction of HM.

Prices just before the loot nerf were not just lower than "some point" they were lower than All POINTS. Price in GW were at record low levels and falling, with HM about to arrive, the prices we have today would be here without the nerf thank you very much, only common mats and minor runes would be even lower.

Only think I will gran is that the loot nerf caused a crash in the price of ectos from 8+ plat to 5 plat, that was because with the nerf, ecto farming became the only game in town for a long while. And on that, if you recall, teh price of ectos shot up on day one of the loot nerf because there was no excemption list. ANet had to react very quickly becuse the messed up big time here,t he excemption list was never planned, it was a reaction the the catastrophic meltdown of the economy and rampant inflation of some things that the loot nerf directly caused.

Prices prior to the nerf were not "ridiculously high" there were not so far from what we have now, relative tot he availability of gold, they were cheaper, certainly the cost of fixed price items were relatively much cheeper than now.

Interesting you lump farmers/traders in the same category, the farmers were never the rich people, sure they were well off, but the obscene rich were never the farmers. The obscene rich are still there, offering to pay 2-3000 ectos for a mini polar bear.

The loot nerf was the saviour of NOTHING in GW, but it sure messed a lot of fun up and removed a huge proportion of the replay value out of the game.

People like me ??

Do not assume that you know me.
Firstly mate i have more money weapons etc than i know what to do with ingame and with it also the boredom, i hardly play now, so dont go around with the notion that i am pissing and moaning about wanting 'phat loot' put on a plate..

Did you ever play GW before loot scaling ?