Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

Originally Posted by Fay Vert
GW has never had inflation.

So where did you get the idea of this mythical inflation? GW maybe a fantasy game, but inflation certainly did not exist.

You must be even newer to the game to post something so wrong about something so right.

Anet are human you know. You really think they had a clue what implementing LS would do. It was clear they had no idea when a couple of days later a patch excluding rare items etc was implemented. It struck me at the time that they were basically experimenting some employees bright idea.

The poll on this thread is dumb/pointless, and utterly meaningless. All it does is measure whiners on a thread about whining over LS.

In no way does it reflect the attitudes or opinions of GW players. It doesn't represent a cross-section of the community, just a cross section of SOUR people, who come to forums to b1tch/whine/moan things they don't like.

Dumb, dumb poll.

It always makes me shake my head when people bring the auction house idea into this type of discussion. People want to sell things easier and for more money. But that's not what an auction house would do.

Say you have a decent sword that sells for around 25k to the community. Right now, you can hawk it in Kamadan for about that much, taking anywhere from 30 seconds to a 30 minutes to find a buyer....

Now imagine an auction house scenario. Someone in the market to buy this sword now has access to 89 sellers of this same exact sword. Since so many want to sell, price PLUMMETS. Supply (or access to supply) skyrockets, meaning the sword can now be bought for 1k.

Now every supposedly swank item you have is worth jack. Which is the exact opposite of what people want to achieve.

Market value for items in this game is propped up by the idea that it's a challenge for buyers and sellers to connect. Competition in the marketplace is greatly inhibited. Implement an open auction house system and watch capitalism DEMOLISH prices.

Ok heres a thought.

From the people who defend LS I hear a lot this type of talk... Working as intended.....Anets plan worked...... Anet implemented this because of inflation...Read ANets comments on LS

Lets theorise what would happen should LS be in place now as it was when Anet originally released it(i.e. without the exemption list). Remember this was how it was originally "designed". The patch was released when they realised they had messed up.

(1) The obvious one. Ecto's. Massive rise in price as supply dries up.
(2) All rare skins. Massive rise in price as supply dries up.
(3) Rare materials. Rising in price as supply dries up.
(4) Dye...Rising in price as supply lowers
(5) Green items and common Gold items. Not too sure on this one. My prediction would be to rise initially and then gradually fall to the lows we have now. HM may offset some of this rise though for common golds.
(6) sup runes. getting predicatble now isn't it. Rising in price.

(7) Common materials. Tend to be higher in price due to lack of supply from farmers. Not much in it though. And still very much affordable as is the case in todays market.

So what does this tell us of the ANets master plan for LS?. Working as intended from the start???

[IRONY]

Maybe we are all wrong and Anet saw that the economy was deflating massively and they had to act to make sure all game items had value. Hence LS to reduce supply and keep prices high!!!!

[/IRONY]

I also think that that anti-LS crowd on this forum should consider alternatives. You guys want more opportunities to make money. That's fine.

But why does that require LS removal? It doesn't! The fact is, there are many other ways the game could be changed to increase cash flow. You people need to suggest some alternatives that don't damage the game (to paraphrase Anet).

Pre-LS era Solo farming was an abusive mess. Anet wont take the game back to that state. Think of alternatives instead of posting the same narrow-minded dead-end crap and voting in a meaningless poll...

And you are even the worse kind. Tell me what do you get out of it when people earn a bit more money without LS?
Is your E-Peen diminished? Do you express against players who don't want to play the game you want them to play it?
Removing LS will make it easier on everybody to make money, either by playing the game, or farming. Or are you one that rather see people put massive amounts of time in the game? Skill > time.

First off, the removal of the LS won't damage the game in any way since it doesn't cause inflation like most people think.

Second off, the situation before the LS was best for everyone - Prices were getting low, money was easy to make - nobody had any reason to complain to be poor.


Pre-LS was just fine. In fact, that's the 'era' where Guild Wars was at it's peak. After that economy got messed over and casual farming got killed.


But okay, here are some other alternatives:

-Loot Scaling doesn't affect Normal Mode. I agree that removing the Loot Scaling in HM would cause the economy to die out even more. Drops would become too common and everything would cost 100 Gold. NM is fine, though.

-Loot Scaling only comes in effect after a few farm runs, just like the anti-farm code used to do.

-Remove Loot Scaling and improve the drops in an 8-man team. (Like, 800 gold drops in an 8-player team, and monsters drop more than 1 item).

Now you're being disingenuous. Most of the potential profit of an average player is not in high ticket items but in much more mundane stuff in the (current) 1-10k price range. Let's say that I have a perfect "Sleep Now in the Fire" inscription. If I can find an interested buyer for it, I will get about 2k in the trade, and there are people who'd want one at that price. However, if it will take at least 15 minutes of my time to find that buyer it just doesn't pay off, since in that 15 minutes I could have gained 3k through other means. Hello merchant, here's a perfect shield mod for you, can has my 25g kthxbai. Everybody loses.

It's not about getting better price from the items you're selling, it's about getting any price at all. Without an auction house to cut down the necessary time investment, there is no low end market. I'm giving away good stuff for free just because it's not worth my time to find the buyer.

This is the "first level interpretation of removing LS from the game" (provided you removed gold-sellers) and it's what I thought at first.

I changed my mind when I realised that this simple feature may actually protect us from wider-ranging phenomenon in the economy, including the much-requested "back to pre-LS farming days" (which is an utopia). Furthermore, for full-part, it should make no difference, so "simple gamers" should not see any impact, which is what I personally had in mind initially.

So I'm on the dark side now, /notsigned (though I must say thank you for initiating this discussion!)

You do realize that your opinion also not representing all GW community.
We all voicing our own opinions here and poll is somewhat represent general feeling in the community (or at least on guru forum)
You and everyone else are welcome of cause to present their point of view, but please do not call yourself "we the people"
If you noticed you actually the only (or the most vocal) voice here to support LS.
On other alternatives.. hmm.. like what? more 1337 drops would be useless as it would sell for 1k in no time, more gold rewards from quests, it is a possibility... anything else?

No, I'm calling out a deluded liar because, while it shouldn't bother me, the flat out greed and, yes, stupidity of people like yourself sickens me. I've been playing this game with my brother and a couple of real life friends since last fall. We've never done a thing but actually play the game - no farming, no grinding of areas except if we did want a fifth hydra's claw, no mindless power trading, just going through and playing. We've done absolutely fine. Are all of us just incredibly lucky, or are we just on something that escapes you: you don't need any of the crap you think you do. If you don't have the cash in this game to play the actual game, you aren't even playing. Heck, my crazy brother who has probably spent almost everything he's ever made on mini-pets and lockpicks is almost done with Sorrow's Furnace (while running some absolutely non-optimal builds because he likes them). This isn't extrapolation from one experience, this is extrapolation from multiple players with multiple characters each, the odds that we all be so incredibly lucky compared to the general populace with every single one of our characters (a couple of dozen in all) is nonsense.


I doubt you could since your notion of "fun" is so tied into the notion of being imaginarily rich. The very notion of "how badly" you were doing would cause an aneurysm.


Actually, you're wrong here and you ought to know it. The game that Anet made, you know, the non-PVP side of the game that involves a series of quests and missions with a handful of elite areas at the end is all that they actually advertise and strongly support. All these sub elements that you are fixated on are just sub elements. When you put the cart before the horse (e.g. it's not enough to slowly work on my Sweet Tooth not caring if ever gets maxed, no, it needs to be maxed out ASAP), you're NOT playing the game they're selling and you have no business expecting anyone with a working brain to take you seriously. It's like going out and buying a Monopoly set and complaining they have all these properties other than Park Place and there's not enough cash for you to block off the rest of the board and then play your way. They make a game, they charge a very fair price for that game, and you either enjoy it or you go do something else. They never promised to be everything to everybody and from the tone of you crybaby whining, I take it you ought to go do something else in life.


Allow me to wipe the tears of laughter from my eyes. First, you clearly aren't willing to work for it or you'd not be here whining. Even the farmers have pointed out there are still places you can still make 20K or more an hour - that's an evening or two for a set of normal elite, a couple of weeks to FOW, and if that's still not fast enough for you, you must not actually care, but instead just want to whine that Anet won't hand you everything you ever dreamed of getting.

Plenty of non-greedy asshats seem to be doing fine. Probably more than 95% of the player base doesn't even know there is such a thing as loot scaling in effect and wouldn't care because it never has nor ever will impact their playing.

Also, max stat weapons and armor regardless of what they look like ARE the best in the game. No fancy skin improves their function, and if you think it matters a single bit whether or not you're using free BMP sword with max mods or a Torment sword with max mods, you define your own problem and explain why some people hate the current system and others have no problem with it.

See, I enjoy getting to improve the appearance of an item because it amuses me. I enjoy getting to advance down some title track because it amuses me. However, I don't think for a millisecond that it does me any good in the game. It's why I don't see money as a problem. I got everything I actually needed just playing the game, when I get to splurge on a suit of elite or a mini or cap a bunch of weird elites I'll probably never use in a million years, that's a bonus, it's not the game, it has no effect on the game, it never will have any effect on the game. It's just a garnish served up on the plate of a nice meal. The garnish might make the presentation more attractive, but it won't ever make the meal any better or more filling. Realise that and you'd have fun, keep obsessing over some intangible digital data and you'll always be a whining, miserable person.

Oh NOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 I'm being outvoted! Stupid, dumb, meaningless poll!!

You have no idea. With no changes other than a straightforward removal of lootscaling, expect hardcore people to farm several millions of gold per week. Think ectoplasm in the 25k range.

And farming for items of interest was harder than it is now, because of repeated area loot degradation. I also seem to remember all the troll farmers complaining their hearts out about the monsters scattering when they took serious damage.

Casual farming got killed way before lootscaling. Remember when trolls wouldn't line up to be cycloned anymore, but ran off to regenerate? I remember it well. Every other forum thread was complaining about it.

The only drops that would be too common are the drops that only cost 100 gold in the first place. All the rest would fall prey to inflation.

If we're going to cut corners like that, why not give everyone a daily alotment of gold upon their first logon of the day? Much more convenient.

Everything it boils down to is that you want more money, right?

I think it all comes down to the fact that it is ANET's game and they make the rules to play by. You either play by their rules or you find another game you might enjoy more.

No he's not. Read the 40+ pages of the discussion to convince yourself of that.

Do you even play this game?

Ecto's were amongst the most rare items because:

1: Handfull of builds to farm it.
2: Favor determined. So almost no acces for some...
3: Uw used to be hard with a full team.

I'm talking gw + faction days.

Now:

1: Almost every char can farm UW without any problems.
2: Entrance of uw is now for all "title based", and last time I checked we still had 20.000 mins of favor.
3: Entrance of uw can also be done through scrolls.
4: Full uw run is now a peace of cake with all the bears running on consumables.

Ecto's will never soar to 25K, they won't even go up to 10K in my opinion.

If they put in a rule A to prevent X. Then they put in a better rule B to prevent X, which makes rule A obsolete. Why do we need real A then?

The problem with this is that you think that Farming is the way to get cash.

And it's not. It's a way to get some extra cash, more if you trade.

Anet is not against Farming, but will not actively support it, like running.

Asking to help farming is like asking to add interface additions for runners: a waste of time.

So, you played a few months with a few people. I've been playing for about 3 years and have met over a thousand people through guild, friends and real life that have money problems. And don't think your opinion on the game without loot scaling has any value here - you never even played the game without it. You just believe all the other people here that claim the LS causes prices to lower.


Please stop with the altering of my words. I NEVER said I wanted to be rich. I NEVER said that the only fun comes from that. It's just that most stuff in this game costs money, and without money these things cannot be done. Don't judge a game if you haven't even done half of it.


A-Net also advertises that skill>time. What A-Net advertises doesn't mean anything.

The thing is that this game was WAY more player-friendly than now. The people who were against this were the elitists with their FoW armours. The people that were rich already and don't want others to get rich. People like you seem to be. In the end, Casual Players get screwed with the Loot Scaling, and nobody except the selfish rich people gets hurt without it. I don't see reason why you would oppose the removal of the Loot Scaling if you're not a selfish rich elitist.


They never promised it because IT WAS ALWAYS THERE. You don't know it cause you've never played the old GW before, but Guild Wars in the past had EVERYTHING a Casual Player would need. Free content like chests without keys, millions of ways to make money, tough missions that required people to team up, an active, lively market and a friendly community.

Now the game has changed into this. I'm not saying that LS causes this alone, but it sure has SOME effect.


Stop. As long as you don't know my current situation as to why I can't be playing Guild Wars every hour of the day, STFU with that argument. I have my reasons why I can't play GW 24/7 and become rich like you. Also, with the LS removed, people CAN work for cash. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF TRYING TO REMOVE IT. Again, your lack of information about the game without LS makes you post BS like this.

These are Hardcore farmers, not casual farmers. I've explained a million times here why I can't become a hardcore farmer and I won't explain it again. And once again, stop posting BS like 'Omgh u dont wont to work for ur cash!1' because farming IS working for your cash. Even without LS, the hardcore farmers still make more money than Casual farmers. It's not like Troll runs are THAT profitable... Especially if you're used to getting like 20K an hour.

No sir, only you think this. Once again, your lack of information... The game was in chaos when the LS first came. All items increased in price rapidly, and the economy got a big kick in the balls. That's why we have an Exemption List now. It's there to reduce the damage done by LS.

This is a matter of opinions, really. In my opinion a Torment Weapon is better than a collector weapon with the same stats. It's worth more, so if you want to get rid of it you can easily buy a new weapon with the profit.

I don't give a rat's ass about the skins or value of weapons. I just want max-damage weapons.

I'm glad that it amuses you, It'd amuse me too, IF I HAD THE MONEY TO DO IT. This is the whole friggin problem. You can do nice stuff and don't care about people that can't. Who cares if it does you any good in the game? The point is to have fun. Realize that removing the LS won't impact YOUR fun in any way. It will just make poor people happy, too.

Not voting - need to tweak poll.

*If* this does remove gold sellers effectively, then I say yes to remove loot scaling.

I'm focused on Hall of Monuments unlocks, not rare skins or other vanity items. All stuff I get > merchant, if I'm not able to use it myself.

Cake is ****ing delicious.
for cake: 23/ 17.16% total votes so far out of...134.

Gib me cookies too, and some pie...pie is nice.

Jesus Christ groovy, how often does everything topple over dead simultaneously in a party?

It's seems to me that some people think being rich in game really means something, it does not mean anything. The game can be played and beaten with ordinary every day items. Can anyone give me one good reason what being rich means? Is it that you can use wealth to feel superior to those who have less than you? I play the game to have fun and if I accumulate gold and items along the way that is fun, as I can share it with my guild mates.

So you finally see that IDS exists . Anyways ever steamed rolled through a mission / vanquish / elite mission? Foes dying at the same time is more common then an exception. That's from my personal experience anyways.

I never implied it for getting stinky rich. >.>. If I would be that, I would already have stacks upon stacks of ambraces / ecto's. Which I don't. I have my fair share of elite / obsidian armors, and nice shiny weapons. The whole crux is if RMT works, why put a cap what people (the actual players) can make in the game. This through normal play, or farming.

When people run out of space to store their gold and have nothing else to do with it, they tie it up in ecto. With hardcore farmers making a full storage of gold each week without breaking a sweat, they will buy a lot of ecto. 'Pro' farmers will not want to waste time haggling with players and just buy it off the trader. Prices will soar.

(And don't tell me people don't use the trader. People using the trader is the only reason the prices do change.)

oh, and don't forget, the 'pro' ecto farmers have always had continuous access to the UW. That's what multiple accounts are for.

It won't be that bad at all. Let's not forget that ecto's are at the same price NOW as BEFORE the Loot Scaling. I also doupt that even the most hardcore farmers can make 1000K raw cash in a week. It means they make 142K per day. Sure, some people might achieve this, but not so many people that it will make an impact on the ecto price. Besides, Armbraces seem to be more popular to stock up on these days.

And even IF the ecto price rose to let's say, 10K. Casual players won't mind cause they don't care about ecto's, and Hardcore farmers can just farm ecto's or cash for ecto's.

66% of QQers? i was expecting a more 90-ish %

No, I probably have way less money than you since I never have once bothered trying to make money, I'm just happy doing what I can do with the money instead of being a miserable fuctard about what I can't. Again, there is nothing you actually need that you can't afford playing this game, nothing. Not one skill, not one piece of armor that you actually need, not one item exists that you won't be able to get just playing the game. Max armor is avaible on your heros for free, max armor is available to your characters for, maybe, 10K if you actually buy all the materials instead of salvaging, they literally give away max weapons for junk or 10-20 minutes of time in the BMP, finishing any of the campaigns but Prophecies earns you a perfect piece of gear, mods drop pretty much constantly, most runes cost 100G - what exactly is the income level in this game stopping you from? Quite literally every single item that you might feel a desire for beyond the basics is vanity that has absolutely zero game effect.

I do what I can, I enjoy it. You wallow in your pathetic misery and expect sympathy for causing your own unhappiness. Well, not from me. Polish a turd all you want, it'll still be a turd.

Yes and that's where you are different from the poor players. You CAN do stuff in the game next to the storyline. Alot of other people CAN'T do this. Why are you trying to prevent other players from doing this?

If you even read what I said before AT ALL, you know that people WITHOUT money have a hard time buying the stuff. Just because you are rich and get alot of drops, doesn't mean everyone is rich. You have no reason to go against the Loot Scaling except your E-Peen and pride as a rich guy.

Say all you want, in the end you are the rich elitist and you are the one trying to prevent others from having fun. I'm not unhappy at all, never said I was. You keep thinking up stuff that I never said or did. Anyway, if all you're going to do is brag about how wealthy you are and attempt to flame without adding anything to this conversation, please just don't post.

So, "It's better because purely because it's worth more." Of course, that might not be so silly if you didn't immediately follow it up with this gem:

For the record, none of my characters has farmed (except for trophies when the collector armor of a region has a higher armor level than what's available in town), and I don't buy weapons from other players, yet my main character (a W/R) is sitting in the Crystal Desert quite happy with maxed short sword, battle axe, war hammer and long bow (only for pulling), with 25p in the bank, which is growing a couple platinums each day... Hmmm. Just noticed that my 1 month anniversary is tomorrow. Neat.

Cake truly is delicious, but I digress.

/signed - good idea - yes, remove LS - etc. etc.

IF, as stated in the link below, it is now foolhardy in the extreme to purchase gold in-game, due to account suspensions, then loot scaling should be replaced with the old system.

Second to last paragraph

As I read it, sellers are banned, buyers are suspended.

It is, I believe, commonly understood that loot scaling was instituted in an attempt to halt, or at least, slow gold selling. If the new policy proves to be successful, forcing the gold sellers to look for better opportunities elsewhere, then what argument will ANet have for keeping a system that no longer has a valid reason to exist within the game?

/Signed...get rid of a system that proved to be ineffective and also, most likely, detrimental to ANet's sales.

See, that's the thing, I am far from rich and have absolutely no epeen, I have the nullpeen. I couldn't give less of a crap about what anyone else has since it has no effect on me and since I don't party with anyone but my actual friends, no one who is so small minded as to care is ever going to see what I have either. Two sets of elite armor between ten characters and the most extravagant thing ever purchased being a celestial rat during the Canthan New Year is not rich. I still don't need a single gold more than I'm making. My entire problem with idiots like yourself is that ALL games of this sort should have loot scaling, every other game remotely in this vein I've ever played has had loot scaling and I'd say it was merely a mistake that GW went as long as it did without it. It's a necessity precisely to stop the sort of game exploiting whiners that are filling up this thread with pseudo logic and bull crap. A good game design lets you play the game without farming, GW does this just fine. A good game design also does not unduly reward those that exploit the system at the expense of the Average Joe gamer.

Any one who can't make enough to play the game just needs to uninstall it and STFU because there is simply no way you need more money than simply playing the game provides. Hell, you can make something like 50K per character each month just running the treasure chests in Nightfall if you have that. The recent Canthan New Year quests gave several plat in rewards per character for less than 45 minutes of time, if you sold the tokens you also got, triple that. Two hours of farming raptors in normal mode last weekend would have netted you enough bunnies and eggs to sell to those chasing a max sweet tooth at least 30K.

You have a miserable attitude, you have a miserable outlook on the game, and no amount of claiming that you simply need more money to have fun in this game will change that basic fact. You don't need the money to play the game. You want the money to dress up your doll more than others, full stop. The skills and the max stat equipment is just far too easy to come by for anyone with a pulse to buy into your utter lie that there are people unable to progress in this game because they don't have the money for the necessities. Anybody who hits a wall because they actualy ran out of money is 1) a full bore moron and 2) will get enough money to move forward with just a couple of hours of killing things. The only walls I've ever hit in this game were from needing to get a different hero leveled up, and that was free, heck, I take that back, it earned me money doing it

cake is ****ing delicious

I don't know? The fact that every single other game even remotely in the same vein has had loot scaling for the very purpose of not overly rewarding exploiters.

The bottom line is that it's a party based game, whether that party is AI or humans makes not a bit of difference in the intended design of the game.

I am only the fifth person to have a slightly different view that I have expressed below in an elaborate manner.
What a bunch of sheep you all are, going with the easy answer.

I'm of a mixed opinion about loot scaling.

Most people don't like it, mainly because they want to solo farm. Thats all well and grand, but Guild Wars was designed to be a party based game.

I feel that there should be some sort of scaling for solo farmers. Nothing as drastic as it is now, maybe something like you get half the amount of possible drops if your party is less then half the size of the possible party size for that area. Meaning that in an 8 person zone, a party of 1-3 people would get 50% drops, while a party of 4+ would get full drops.

That said, I like seeing tonnes of drops surrounding my monk after I take down half the map in one go. I think everyone does. The sheer amount of drops your used to get on farming run was great, it was fun going out and returning with stacks of crafting materials and bags full of junk.

In the end though, Guild Wars is a game, and I think that because of that loot scaling should be removed. In my opinion, it's just more fun going out and getting drops left right and center, it makes the game seem more fulfilling.

Of course, this is just my two cents, and anyone interested in flaming me (or any other post in this thread for that matter) should realize that this is a matter of opinion and everyones opinion is valid, even if you disagree with it.

Ahh, that explains why you are constantly bragging over your own wealth and calling other people names just to make yourself feel better. You have 0 respect for other people that are in a different situation than you, and you don't care about them as long as you have your own money and elite armour.

First off, farming is NOT an exploit. Most RPG's are based on farming and killing monsters to get stuff. In games like Guild Wars, it's impossible to ban farming or the need for farming, unless you let everything have fixed prices, and give players enough money to buy all of these things.

Second off, your opinion on how the game was before the LS has no value as you weren't there to see it.

And last, the removal of the LS isn't at the expense of the Casual gamer, or anyone else in this game. The only reason why anyone would be against the LS, is if that person is rich and wants to prevent others from becoming rich.

Oh, and a set of 15K armour = rich.
Once again, don't compare others with your own in-game situation. You might be a rich elitist (And you don't even see it yourself), but not everyone in this game is.
All these things you mentioned are occasional and are not a steady source of income. Raptors would've been nice without the LS, but even in HM, they only drop about 1 white item per run.
Instead of calling people names, try and give ONE good reason why not to remove the Loot Scaling. All you have been doing in this thread is trolling and bragging about how you can manage in this game and even buy 1337 armour.
Once again, open your eyes and read what people say. Just for heroes alone you need about 1000K. There's also armour, skill, fees and stuff that nobody NEEDS but everybody wants just because it's cool. In the past, one did not need money for stuff like chest running, and one got easy money for skills, armours and FoW/UW. If you don't need money to play this game, give it to me then. I'll gladly accept it and enjoy my game, too.
Again, get lost with your lies and wrong facts. I have NEVER claimed to want to have a better-looking character than others. In fact, I don't care what my character looks like, and that's good, cause all my characters have the basic 1,5K armour or less.
Once again you proof to be a rich elitist. Skills, for example, are 1K each. 1 friggin K. For normal players 1K is quite alot of cash. Also, necessities aren't the same for everyone, and depends with one's playstyle.
Sure, anyone can get enough money with just a couple of hours of killing things. It's called grinding, and it's the exact reason why we want LS to disappear - to make the grinding lighter and more fun. And your situation doesn't matter in this topic. You might have it going well, but others don't.

I wonder if you guys have recently seen any bots.
I don't know because I haven't been in any of the known outposts.
Are there less bots after the update?

On second thought, remove loot scaling AND let us do this again:
(at least for a special event weekend or something like one)

A million? Just for heroes?

You do realize that statements like that completely shred whatever little trace of credibility your arguments might have carried, right?