Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

Fine, you *may not* be a crybaby, but you are definitely a liar, that's just plain old fact.

The 250K figure was just a conservative estimate, it may be more, I don't really know, I don't really care. I've done *everything* I ever wanted to so far, finished all four campaigns at least once, purchased some elite armor, splurged on vigor runes, etc., and I've still got in excess of 80K on reserve right this second and I've never consciously done a thing to make money.

Here's why you ARE a liar and probably are a crybaby (I could have been in a position to call you that 3.9 months ago for the record based on your assinine version of the game): Max non elite armor plus a max weapon and shield (with max inherent mods) cost at the most 15K from vendors and weaponsmiths. You don't even need this equipment for more than the first half of any of the games. If you go with collector gear, you can have max armor and weapons by the end of any of the campaigns for free.

It costs less than 7K for 20 skills in addition to whatever you get for free. Each campaign even gives you 2 signets of capture for free. Since you only get 8 total skills and a max of 1 elite at a time, that's two to four complete builds with all *necessary* equipment for a cost of 6.5K to 21.5K. I guarantee that anybody with any business commenting on this game could complete all four campaigns in normal mode for less than 50 platinum per character, let alone some crazy idea that you need 100K just to leave the newbie areas.

Let's see here.


You can call me how you want. I know from myself that I am not lying. I AM having trouble with money, else I wouldn't be posting here.


Well good for you. There are some people who have NOT done everything they wanted so far. You are the one that is whining for cash to stay rare. I say you are just an elitist that doesn't want others to get the stuff you get.

First off, collector's gear is impossible to get (Thanks to Loot Scaling, remember? -.-).

As for armour, depending on the character and profession I make, I most certainly DO need runes and/or insignia's to play the game. Otherwise I let either myself down, or my team.

Skills: You can beat the game with 20 skills? I surely can't. With all the crazy skill changes, I need to alter my build all the time and switch skills. I lost at least 50K to just that fact. Tomes are useless because I haven't unlocked alot of skills yet, and it sucks to try and buy them.

Weapons: Weaponsmith weapons are beyond my reach. I buy unID' goldies from players to equip at the start. 5K + Materials for a starting player, with the knowledge they have to buy 1,5K armour, too? Yeah right...

And don't forget I need to buy for 25 heroes PER CHARACTER. With 8 characters that makes 200 heroes in total. If each of them takes only 1 Weaponsmith weapon, I have to cough up 1000K just for that.

Sure, I could also buy unID gold weapons for my heroes, but they are often worse and I still have to pay ALOT. Don't tell me that my heroes don't need max damage weapons because they do. If I 'play' this game, I should AT LEAST be able to equip my characters with the cheap max stuff.


As for the people that think that the Lootscaling causes the prices to go down... You obviously never played before the Scaling. The Loot Scaling made prices go UP when it was installed. Hence we got the Exemtion List. Without the Exemption List, every rune would be about 30K each because they never dropped for players cause of Loot Scaling.

And before you ask, the non-farmer BARELY contributes to the prices in the market. In the end, it's the farmer that makes the prices. If alot of runes are farmed, the price will go down. Same goes with ecto's.

As for the inflation. This is a load of BS. Of course, prices are always high when a game is fairly new and in it's best years. Everyone was making Warriors with Absorption Runes, and because the Vigor runes weren't profession-bound, everyone bought this. Oh, and don't forget that Sup Vigor and Absorption had less chance to drop than other runes, and that golden items could contain purple runes.

Inflation isn't possible to survive in a game like Guild Wars, where only more and more items are created from nothing and enter the market at no price. If you wait long enough, everyone will have everything and every item will be worth merchant price. Besides, before the LS, the prices were already lowering. Except of course the rare items, but this is A-Net's fault for giving them the drop rate or nerfing the farming.

I don't know how you've played, but on my casual side, this happened "naturally". I.e. by simply selling loot, I got all this, and LS didn't stop me from getting collector's (had to go with only a healer in Heroes Audience for a few seeds). The game provides ample opportunity for all that's necessary, including for the 25 heroes (which mean you went through NF and EotN which themselves give enough loot and money). So, all this without trading with players, just with merchants, collectors, weaponsmith, etc.

(15k armor came a bit after that, and then I adapted and started making a bit more money, but that's only after all this basic stuff)

Have a look over Here.
So to return the stfu, GTFO .

Sorry to say, but Anet is not going to remove lootscaling so people can make easier and quicker gold, just because of the recent thread of bans with gold sellers. They will not make the game easier, but only harder... It would be nice, but I highly doubt anything will change with the lootscaling. There are alot of things that are not included in loot scaling, and can still make money farming those items such as Ectos or Festiv Items. Alot of people made alot of money/profit this past weekend from hardcore farming the Bunnies and Golden Eggs.

That must explain how I got all of it I ever wanted before I had enough money to just buy stuff and save time...

Lie, plain and simple. The few builds and associated areas that *need* runes are late, late game. Everything else works with or without runes. Besides, the most expensive rune in the game is a superior vigor and is hardly necessary (I've purchased a whole one) for anything except elite builds for elite areas and that is not at issue here. If you are regularly and reliably hitting up elite areas, money is not your problem.

More crying, more lying. You can probably beat the game with a lot less, but that's not even what I said: I said you could beat all four campaigns with less than 50K spent per character. If you can't come up with flexible enough builds that the nearly 50 skills per character that this would net you to get by, you're not trying.

Regardless, whether you can get by on a cheapskate strategem isn't the issue, it's if you actually can't get by comfortably with the amount of money you get normally under LS. I know I've certainly beat all four campaigns without ever once needing to go get more money for skills. Heck, the last time I needed to wait on buying a skill for a reason other than I just didn't have a character with access to that location yet was about a month into playing Prophecies.

That would be more lying, more crying, and apparently even dumbass "strategy". I've never bought a single thing from another player other than a mini, you don't need to. Between collectors, BMP, weaponsmiths, and drops, you can get through the game without needing any kind of mad money.

Sigh, you're like arguing with 3 y.o. If you've unlocked all 25 heros for a character, that character played completely through at least NF and EOTN with more than enough decent drops to get by on without ever touching a weaponsmith unless you want. Never mind that 10 of those 25 heros come with max (if not optimal) gear and the BMP for $10 provides an unlimited suppy of perfect gold req 9 max weapons of your choice AND pays you 500G for the "trouble" of getting each one. Yes, fully kitting out those heros with runes will cost you money, but you do at as you play and need that extra oomph, not all at once which is what you want to pretend.

The big issue for you is one of no perspective. You *expect* to have the *best* for as little effort as possible, aka greed and laziness. You don't need the best to play the game, you need good enough. If you have to wait the 1 hour it might take you to earn enough buy another skill playing normally, I think you'll live.

Or maybe we're playing two different games. I'm playing a game that didn't hand me 25 heros and a naked character and threaten to kill my dog if I didn't beat DOA by the end of the next weekend while unlocking everything and having perfectly modded equipment on everybody, you?

But if its okay to make lots of money by farming select areas (raptors, smites etc) then why is it not okay to make money by farming which ever area (or many areas for variety) that takes your fancy?

I can make as much money now as ever, but the gme is really really boring with only the same few places to farm to do it. Before the fun nerf I could farm in dozens of places with dozens of different builds, it never got boring, and I would even mix this with helping guildies and friends out with missions, quests or build experiments. Now all that is gone, I can still make the money but the fun has gone out of the game because of the nerf.

The only reason that some 'farm runs' are more attractive than others is that they allow for a lot more kills per time. This would be the case with or without lootscaling. So, your argument is meaningless.

You miss my point. There are still some places where you can make almost as much cash as before the nerf, that being the case, why is it undesirable to alow the variety that there used to be? The hardcore farmers know of all the places that are still good, the casual players or casual farmers don't, so who is the loot nerf hurting now?

Answer: everyone. The hardcore farmers make as much, but its boring now,the casual players can't make money farming where they could before.

Oh wait, I forgot who benefits, the bots, they don't mind how boring it is.

Without lootscaling, the places that are still pretty good now, would make you at least 50k per hour just from merchanting. You'd still complain that there's no variety, because for 'real' money you'd have to do 1 or 2 specific runs WITH or WITHOUT lootscaling.

I refer you to my previous comment on the fun of running dozens of builds to farm dozens of locations.

I think is what they call, "Working as intended".

This isn't Harvest Moon, it's Guild Wars, and while there are a lot of meta goals supported within the game system (e.g. vanquishing), farming is *not* one of them. I would wager that farming is seen as something to keep in the game for when someone really does want to race to that next set of armor or nab a few hundred special weekend drops but not something that should be encouraged in the general. You simply can't have a game that sells itself on the "We got rid of the grind" mantra but has an economy fueled by everbody putting in a few hours a week doing repetitive tasks. Instead, they've given us a game that could easily be played for years on what you make just playing it without ever so much as spending ten minutes farming (and the farmers wonder why there's no sense of satisfaction?).

Last weekend is the closest I ever came to farming (hitting up the raptors in normal mode for the easter drops because I wanted to boost my Treasure Hunter for free on my warrior and get some chocolate for my sugar junkie assassin). With great effort I managed to put in enough time to get a stack and change of each - just that much time damn near killed me, I've got no idea why anbody would ever farm in this game LS or not since from where I'm sitting everything else that I got in those ~6 hours of raptor runs that I'll actually make use of I could have easily obtained over a longer period of having fun playing the game.

RTFT, buddy. More hearsay, anecdotes, opinions, impressions, and a few unhelpful screenshots. Not what I'm looking for. Not good enough. I want numbers, BIG numbers.

Anyway, how often does everything die SIMULTANEOUSLY in partied PvE? More often they all die within a few seconds of each other. So even if your tinfoil hat theory does in fact have some merit (of which I have yet to be convinced), it still affects farmers and not full parties.

And I refer you to my previous comment that all those dozens of locations would be just as pointless to farm with or without lootscaling.

Without lootscaling, you probably wouldn't be having fun either because people would be making much more money in the hot places than you in your 'fun' places. Just like they are now.

Well if that's the deal Proof me wrong. Come with your statistics to deny it.

I do experience IDS, may it be from farming, or full party mission, vanquish etc.
I don't have to convince you it's there because I know from personal experience.
And I know the difference because I played pre LS, and after. This goes for 8/8 parties, and farming trips.

So with all this big talk of how it doesn't exist, you proof me wrong .

You should take that little theory of yours up with Gaile

While you are at it ask her what happened to that grindless game you bought

Who cares about how much other people make? Casual players don't care about the e-peen rarities. They care about skills, fancy-armor + titles.

Fay Vert cares, and that's who I was talking to.

What's the difference between e-peen rarities and fancy armors, and titles?

No, I care not a jot about people who earn 100 times what I do, you are mistaken there. I care about how much fun I have as I play the game in the way I like to play. Given that I have completed every quest, mission, dungeon, storyline multiple times, that wasy does not include "playing the game normally" any more. I also care about the fact that a hell of a lot of people I used to play with have quit the game for good because of this nerf.

When they added the loot nerf,t hey sucked a hell of a lot of fun and replay value out of the game. THAT is why I hate it, it was counter productive, it worsened the whole game, its bad desigh, intentionally nerfing a very popular form of gameplay. And for what? Some whacked out notion of what is a good economy? lol, how obsurd can you get?

They changed the economy for sure, but is it any better? Is it any worse? Of course it isn't, its just different, so what was the point? To make players more casual and reduce the load (ie costs) on the servers?

never mind the hordes of people that left the game because they couldnt afford ANYTHING unless they went and repeatedly farmed the same spot over and over and over again.

you know...the people who just want to play the game not a tiny section of the map.

So a bunch of people left the game in search of some grindtastic El'dorado ? Good for them, normal players now can at least afford runes and *gasp* the occasional rare skinned item via trading whereas before that would have required 100K + XX ecto.

100K used to be PEANUTS. Now it can last a careful spender...months.

Well, I have never heard of anyone leaving the game because they couldn't make money, so I think you are just making that up. Certainly none of the many I know who have quit left for that reason.

But nice try inventing a problem that never existed, not going to add much to the debate I am afraid though.

This thread has just been cleaned. I have also added a poll, for those of you who wish to treat it simply as a petition, and not as a proper discussion. Enjoy.

i just told you, whats more Anet thought it was a problem, I personally thought it was a problem, people i talked to about it thought it was a problem and there are people here who continue saying it was a problem.


just because the glass is empty it dos not mean there was never any water in it before.

please, carry on.

My income pre-LS nerf was very comfortable, the game felt free flowing, it was fun to go farm but I wasnt hard core about it at all. More people had more to spend, it was easier to get armor sets and skills, it was easier to sell things. The game felt more vigorous.

It now feels like we are in a recession. Yeah, you can earn money still, but it involves more farming, or more replaying the same missions over and over. More time. People generally have less to spend, its far harder to sell most things outside of rare skins, select perfect things, tomes, certain minipets. The game and its economy feels much more sluggish.

Is it just loot scaling's fault? Maybe not exclusively. Certainly has some to do with inscriptions as well, but I think a large part of the problem is indeed loot scaling.

gak cant find if I posted in the fast growing thread..
signed!!

I dont farm, so when I h/h I have to share with the heroes and henchies---when loot scaling was introduced I had to let anet take their share too!!! just WRONG....its bad enough that the drops suuck, and then to have them reduced even more is just .

GET RID OF THE LOOT SCALING!!!

No need, her quote explains it entirely, "players who enjoy solo farming".

It does not say, "players who enjoyed solo farming pre-LS" or "players who expect to make enough gold just farming to buy whatever they want AND make even more bags of cash selling good drops".

The game allows you to solo farm all you want, all day long, and it won't do a single thing to affect your drops like occured pre-LS. There isn't a single thing they've done or are doing to harm the fun of solo farming in and of itself. *You* simply don't find it rewarding with gold and white item drops limited.

Enjoy does not mean dominate.

Taking quotes out of context FTL.

Dude, do you even know wtf you're spouting?

Read it up, get a support group or a shrink.

Off-topic, Faer but..."I Like Cake"?
Very off-topicky for you....but I vvoted that anyway...

It's not about whether or not you like cake, its about how it it objectively, and as a matter of absolute fact, delicious in ways that resemble a red engine.

LS doesn't not effect Full Parties, it's called Loot scaling for a reason, and even with a Real pug party your loot is still same as H/H.

After thinking it over some more, I've come to the conclusion that LS still does overall more good than harm. However, and this is a very big however, it is just one half of the solution and only pushes problems around without really accessing them. Here are some measures that would help the issue (any combination of them would work):

1. Devalue the currency by raising the monetary value of all drops by x% to compensate for the disparity in the accessibility of pre- and post-LS fixed price items. Everybody wins except NPCs but they won't QQ.
2. Make identical weapon mods stackable. Currently I need 10+ mules just to hold the stock, and my entire Xunlai storage is full of merchandise, one of each item that is on offer (page 1 inscriptions, page 2 tomes, page 3 caster mods, page 4 martial arts mods). Every time I sell something I have to fetch a replacement from a mule, and I still keep trashing perfect mods because I can't bother buying any more character slots and all the existing ones are full
3. Finally implement the auction house!

IDS however goes beyond parties and kills everybodies loot

I can't decide if I want to vote cake or yes ><

Rubbish, total and utter rubbish. Given the length of time this problem has been debated nobody has ever quoted mass player decline as the reason, not by ANet or anyone, that is just total rubbish and you know it. You made up a stupid reason with no evidence.

Some context for you:

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...70&postcount=1

You are just proving to be selfish here. 'Because I got my stuff, everyone else can!1!!1!1'. Some people don't have enough cash to buy what they need. The game doesn't drop the same for everyone and not everyone has the same amount of cash. In your situation you are unharmed by the LS. Saying you want to keep it is selfish and ignorant.
Please, stop claiming ignorant stuff without proof. 'Ur a lyier! I got my 400K in 2 dais so evry1 cahn get that!~!1'. You don't have a clue how I play the game, and as long as you don't know that, you should stop telling me how this game works.
I don't use cookie-cutter builds and I never search for builds on Wiki etc. I make my own build and I experiment with skills. I'm 'playing the game' instead of 'cheating my way to a 1337-skillbar', in your language. My builds work how I see fit, and you have nothing to say in that matter.
Same as above. And sure, I COULD beat the campaigns with less than 50K. Sure, I could even buy a run to drok, then Thunderhead Keep, and then let others do the last few missions for me. No thanks, I'd rather be playing the game as it should be played. Remember, this is a game, and the primairy thing that a game should have is enjoyment. As matters are now, only the rich can truely enjoy the game. One that only played the storyline can't claim he enjoys the game because the storyline is FAR from everything.
yes but that's you. The moment you compare your situation with EVERYONE else is the moment your argument is invalid. Skills are expensive, there's no denying that. The reason why Skill Tomes were added, was because too many people were having problems with buying skills. Of course, stuff like Tomes aren't very effective in a market with a disfunctional trading system.
Again, don't compare your personal experience with the rest. I DO need to buy stuff from other players. Collectors are useless because the chance is low I get 5 of the same collectible items with the Lootscaling in play. It takes me way too long to farm collectible items, too. BMP... Don't have that. You're telling me that only players who have the BMP have the rights on free equipment? Weaponsmiths are just too expensive, I already explained that. And drops... I've never seen a max-damage white drop in Normal Mode before. Same goes with blues. Purples and Golds are max damage, but they barely drop. (Oh, and even purples are non-max damage in large parts of the game).
Let me remind you that you are the one calling others people's words 'lies and crying' without knowing their situation or without any proof. You're just comparing your 1337-situation with other's situations. And don't forget that the existance of the LS doesn't harm you in any way. If it's removed it won't harm your playstyle in a negative way. The only reason I can think of why you would want to keep it is for your e-peen, and to stand out above others.
I find it hard to believe that you get more than 1000K from just playing EotN and NF. There are no decent drops in Normal Mode except for keys and materials. Wether their gear is optimal or not depends on the builds they have. YOU are not the one to decide if MY heroes are equipped in a good way or not. BMP is out of the question for reasons that are none of your business. The point is that the BMP is just that, a BONUS Mission Pack. It's not like it should be NEEDED to play the game. The point is that I have trouble even equipping my FIRST few heroes, not all 25 per character. And in this game, it's impossible to go without planning your cash, cause else you will get in trouble later and you'll have NO way to farm for cash.
So playing the game, getting nice drops and buying everything you want is not called lazy and greedy, but working a bit for it, is? Let me tell you that I'd GLADLY work for cash. It's just impossible with the current game. Max damage weapons are not the best in this game. Torment Weapons and FoW armour are. Max Damage Weaponsmith weapons are just the base equipment that anyone should be able to buy. And who is to decide what or what not is good enough? If I play this game, I want to do it at least with maxed out characters. I don't want to skip stuff for being to hard, just because I did a half-ass job on equipping my heroes properly.
I am playing a game that was said to be good for Casual players. When I bought this game, it was said to be different to WoW in the sense that players can get their max damage weapons and armour WITHOUT having to grind for it. This was, indeed, the case. Until Loot Scaling and the chest-locks came, that is. Anyway, as long as the removal of the Loot Scaling doesn't harm you, I see you as just another whining hardcore farmer that doesn't want others to get nice stuff.

It's posts like these that make me wonder if people even have all their facts straight before screaming for LS to be removed. As others have pointed out, if you're in a full group, LS doesnt affect you!

Then there are those who don't know what inflation is and claim that inflation doesnt exist and never existed.

I hope ANET reads the actual posts instead of just looking at the poll because it's clear that the bulk of the anti-LS crowd don't know what they're talking about.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++

Did you ever do a 8/8 team with all players, then looked and checked if every single foe dropped something?
It does not happen. Why? Because of the IDS ls bug. This is my personal experience. If it ain't so prove me wrong.

This is not what he said. Re-read his posts, like many others, before you jump to the wrong conclusions. I think that it's enough for not having to reply to the rest of your post.

As I said before, it's really not difficult to get enough money for the stuff we need, and even enough for a 15k armor which is only different from the normal one in appearance. I'm IMHO an average player, not particularly gifted but fair enough to have finished the 4 games with ample money for me and my heroes (btw you rarely need the 25 of them!).

Isn't that just an issue of loot allocation?

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...mned_600/Smite

Temple runs, as a Monk who offers these runs, you can make 20k per hour. Let's say if you play 10 hours a day for two days. That's 400k right there.

Ever heard of green weapons?

Aren't you debating this for the same purpose?

Just how much money does it cost to equip your heroes?

Just a note, Torment Weapons are outdated.

You still don't need to grind for maximum status weapons and armors. FoW armors and Torment Weapons do not give you additional attack or armor bonuses.