Expertise - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 16:13 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

I'm attacking someone on their expressions because it's the only support they've given to their reasoning. If you went to any reasonable practise and presented your thesis with only opinions to support it, how seriously would you be taken? Tyla has told us nothing on why these builds are degenerate other tham that they don't fit his ideal on what a ranger should play. Saying that a build is mindless button mashing is extremely vauge and provides no actual insight into why expertise should be nerfed. If you have an opinion, that's fine, but don't state it as a fact inless you have the evidence to support it.

If you're not here to give an actual "reasoned" arguement, I'd take your words to heart.

Mindless buttonmashing, is a primary reason.
But I would to see it nerfed mostly because it doesn't fit the role a Ranger is supposed to be doing.

Remove the second part, and you've got a more viable argument, yes..
But the mindless buttonmashing thing says why it should be nerfed. Being able to roll your head on a keyboard and win something, anything shouldn't be allowed, just like why 'Sins were nerfed.
Bloodspike is the same problem.

And if you want evidence, look at all the ranked shitways in HA.

blakecraw

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Austin, TX

05 Apr 2008 at 16:37 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

still waiting for someone to tell me to stop playing critical cruel spear lol

stop playing critical cruel spear. play critical vicious attack

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

05 Apr 2008 at 16:41 - 163

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakecraw

stop playing critical cruel spear. play critical vicious attack

me wants template in mah inbox

Splitisoda

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

STALKER!

Not in One

N/A

05 Apr 2008 at 19:20 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

R/W - Aura of Stability to victory!

R/D - any of the other numerous melee shutdowns you should have. i mean escape doesnt even give an IAS, uses their elite, and only helps their own dodge chance. i just dont understand how it has gotten as far as it has, it really doesnt seem like a good build. why even go ranger primary... at least you get wounding strike as a derv

R/Rt - oath shot spirit spammer please keep theyre hilarious!

R/A - i never understood why going ranger primary was better... yay +30 vs elements? i guess

R/P - funny. at least pets are viable. (has anyone ever done an enraged lunge spike? now that you can target it might work :P)

R/N - i congratulate people who can press 1-2 and the occasional OoB and not get bored out of their minds.

well... my point being i dont see why expertise is so detrimental to the game. its no where near as poorly constructed as soul reaping/leadership. although it does have some hax e-management, rangers need it, and making them waste attribute points for it is the consequence.
are there any skills useful linked to expertise? glass arrows? thats it. d-shot doesnt benefit from expertise. practiced stance/CG has dissapeared (i thought it was a funny build..too bad..)

i have still yet to see a coherent point as to why r/d are killing the meta. i had seen many before the explosion of them in HA, and they werent good then and i dont see how they can be good now.

give real points please.

edit: rangers need expertise to work other weapons primarily because bow attacks just fail. quite a lot.

Bow attacks fail? Anet had to shutdown Ranger Turrets.

Cripshot stops ANYTHING coming at you.

There are about 4 stances used ALOT in expertise, not to mention throw dirt, and the half range shots can deal out alot of damage.

Really, pressing the same skills is boring? O hai sins, u must be encredibly bord MIRITE?

R/A can go on FOREVER. I've seen DB/MB last a frick load of time, especially with zealous daggers.

Escape is good because its an IS, and it can protect you from melees, and the fact that rangers have 100 armor against elements makes it so mesmers and necros are mostly the only way to take them down.

Shadow Kurd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Netherlands

Scouts of Tyria

P/

05 Apr 2008 at 19:31 - 165

OMFG let this thread die alrdy!

Azora

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

Portugal =P

We Need Fame [sOz]

R/

05 Apr 2008 at 19:35 - 166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

/signed...

Finally, you can see rangers use ANY secondary proffesion to an advantage,
/E for conjure
/Mo Mending Touch
/W for IAS, and thumper
/A for dagger skills
/Me for Epidemic
/Rt for Spirit Spamming
/D for Scythe
/N Toucher
/P for Spear/Pet

And if you list counters for all those builds, i can think of a counter for your build like it takes no skill.

Why so much hate?
did u never saw in any post " rangers are one of the most or even the most versatil profession"?

geez if u are so nervous cause rangers can do EVERITHYNG just create one!

They are my favourite class ever and gess wat? they are good!

ESCAPE= nerf = i go to Anet hk AND

R/E conjuRE fire THEM!
R/Mo Mending Touch ME MAKING ME IMUNE TO THEIR "GET OUT" CONDITION
R/W and thump THEM LIKE BUNNIES
R/A STABB my DAGGERS IN THEIR BACK WITH LOW ENERGY COST
R/Me Epidemic EVERYONE INSIDE THE BUILDING
R/Rt Spirit Spamming THE STREET SO THAT THEY CANT LEAVE WITHOUT GETTING KILLED
R/D CHASE THEM WITHOU GETTING HITTED BY A STUIPIDD SHOCK AXE WARRIOR
R/N TOUCH THEM MAKING THEM FEEL STUPID
R/P MAKE MY BLACK MOA EAT THEIR LEGGS LIKE EGGS FOR BREACKFAST

gg

Azora

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

05 Apr 2008 at 21:13 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

"These builds are mainly skillless, as the people who play them. C-Space then mash the 12345678 keys."

Give those same idiots a standard warrior build and they'd do the same damn thing. Or they'd run a mending wammo. Is that so much better?

There's room to grow for an experienced player, room for skill to make a difference, in a warrior. There's also room for that in a thumper. There is most certainly more room in a warrior, which is why warriors are used in GvG and not thumpers, but you can't deny that there could be more to a thumper than just spamming skills on recharge, just as a warrior could be run (rather effectively) as a c-space button masher.

Making it so that people can't use their secondaries as effectively as they can now won't stop people from running c-space button-mashing builds, bottom line, which is why all of this anti-thumping hate is horribly misplaced. If you want to nerf a build because it is mindless but powerful, by all means, nerf it, but don't take out EVERY secondary-skills-used-with-primary-attribute build in the game because of it, because that's just unnecessary stifling of profession synergy.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

05 Apr 2008 at 21:22 - 168

Thumper requires skill?

Plz tell me how?

And for those who think RaO can be run by a warrior, he should get a braincheck.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 21:25 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Give those same idiots a standard warrior build and they'd do the same damn thing. Or they'd run a mending wammo. Is that so much better?

There's room to grow for an experienced player, room for skill to make a difference, in a warrior. There's also room for that in a thumper. There is most certainly more room in a warrior, which is why warriors are used in GvG and not thumpers, but you can't deny that there could be more to a thumper than just spamming skills on recharge, just as a warrior could be run (rather effectively) as a c-space button masher.

Making it so that people can't use their secondaries as effectively as they can now won't stop people from running c-space button-mashing builds, bottom line, which is why all of this anti-thumping hate is horribly misplaced. If you want to nerf a build because it is mindless but powerful, by all means, nerf it, but don't take out EVERY secondary-skills-used-with-primary-attribute build in the game because of it, because that's just unnecessary stifling of profession synergy.

/Sigh...
Thumpers are infact used in GvG. Play it and go observe. The same C-space to fame idiots think they can get high and mighty with these shitty gimmicks there aswell.
And people use these builds why? Because they are brainless and they win versus some people.
Yet the people who are bad at the game but wish to get better suffer, aswell as people who want to play to have fun.

shru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 21:27 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Thumper requires skill?

Plz tell me how?

And for those who think RaO can be run by a warrior, he should get a braincheck.

I'm pretty sure he was saying that if you nerf thumpers, the people playing them would just join the ranks of wammos again.
And idk where you got the idea that someone in this thread was implying that warriors should run RaO, maybe you should read a little more carefully.

Yuhe Ji

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Los Angeles

E/

05 Apr 2008 at 21:30 - 171

Just because R/W and R/D are powerful cookie cutter builds doesn't make them any easier to use than a lot of the other cookie cutter builds out there. If your argument is against using builds like that in general, it should not be in this thread, as this is supposed to be an argument about expertise.

I don't think Thumpers and Escape Scythes can replace a warrior or dervish in most cases. Warriors can do more damage than a thumper and have greater armor while dervishes have higher spike ability and make use of enchantments.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

05 Apr 2008 at 21:31 - 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

I'm pretty sure he was saying that if you nerf thumpers, the people playing them would just join the ranks of wammos again.
And idk where you got the idea that someone in this thread was implying that warriors should run RaO, maybe you should read a little more carefully.

Nope, he said that "It would be interesting to see warrior run RaO" and "Thumpers only use 1 energy skill from warrior."

I lol'd hard.

shru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 21:36 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Nope, he said that "It would be interesting to see warrior run RaO" and "Thumpers only use 1 energy skill from warrior."

I lol'd hard.

That was me, and you've completely jumbled up my comments. The "It would be interesting to see a warrior run RaO" was a sarcastic comment to another person misunderstanding my earlier sarcasm, which if you took the time to actualy read it, was used to describe the advantages of a R/W thumper over a hammer warrior (namely the perma 33% IAS and speed boost). And The fact that the only warrior skill on a thumper's bar that requires energy is true, I've seen no other energy skill other than crushing blow on a thumper. Care to enlighten me on what's so funny?
See:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shru

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

A Warrior should use Rampage as One?

That'd be fun to watch, but my point was more or less that thumpers have an edge over warriors because of said skills.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 21:36 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuhe Ji

Just because R/W and R/D are powerful cookie cutter builds doesn't make them any easier to use than a lot of the other cookie cutter builds out there. If your argument is against using builds like that in general, it should not be in this thread, as this is supposed to be an argument about expertise.

I don't think Thumpers and Escape Scythes can replace a warrior or dervish in most cases. Warriors can do more damage than a thumper and have greater armor while dervishes have higher spike ability and make use of enchantments.

/Facepalm...
Nobody should be able to play a build so powerful (Well, yeah it's weak but it's powerful in it's own way) and win. C-Spacing to fame?
Degenerate play. Degenerate build. But the main thing is degenerate play.

And my argument about using those builds in general is infact very viable. Again, it's degenerating PvP. Switch on HoH observe. You see many R/D-ways. Mostly R/D-way vs R/D-way vs. Balanced.

Either way, with Thumpers. RaO is a pretty stupid skill in itself. You get unstrippable IAS, and on the same bar, increased speed.
The ability to abuse secondaries and play it with such ease...ugh...

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

05 Apr 2008 at 21:39 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And for a long time, eles used HP better than monks, and were integral to party support because of it. Paragons use warrior shouts better than warriors. Warriors use Shock better than an ele. Mesmers use Gale better than an ele. All casters use GoLE better than an ele, and that's a primary skill.

Short answers: Leadership is broken. Warriors can't spam Shock on recharge. I'm not claiming no other problems exist with the design of the game than Leadership. I'm saying that the problems pertaining to Expertise are worse.

Quote:

So...what's the problem here? Some classes can use secondary skills better than their secondary, this isn't exactly news. A toucher is a blood necro done ranger-style, or a ranger vampire, whichever way you want to look at it.

No. It's an example of abuse of a primary attribute, that is just as bad as the N/Rt healers abusing Soul Reaping for energy gain. Arenanet responded to this problem by nerfing Soul Reaping, several times.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

05 Apr 2008 at 21:43 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

That was me, and you've completely jumbled up my comments. The "It would be interesting to see a warrior run RaO" was a sarcastic comment to another person misunderstanding my earlier sarcasm, which if you took the time to actualy read it, was used to describe the advantages of a R/W thumper over a hammer warrior. And The fact that the only warrior skill on a thumper's bar that requires energy is true, I've seen no other energy skill other than crushing blow on a thumper. Care to enlighten me on what's so funny?

And by saying so, you imply that a warrior can run RaO because the only e-skill is crushing bow.

Well, try to run RaO with a warrior and see

. That's the funniest part. Honestly, I'd rather run Hamstring.

Btw, some ppl run RaO with Wild Blow too, but that is not the point.

shru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 21:46 - 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

And by saying so, you imply that a warrior can run RaO because the only e-skill is crushing bow.

Well, try to run RaO with a warrior and see

. That's the funniest part. Honestly, I'd rather run Hamstring.

Btw, some ppl run RaO with Wild Blow too, but that is not the point.

I'm glad you have eyes, now try actualy using them and read.....

Since you're having a few problems I'll try to help you out here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

-4% for Ranger skills, -2% else

When a hammer ranger puts out more pressure than a hammer warrior, there's a problem. (etc.)

Maybe a Warrior should try using a 33% unstripable IAS/Speed buff (Rampage as One), an on call daze (Bestial mauling), and extra damage added in seperate packets (pet).....none of those are expertise linked, idk why you want to change expertise to fix thumpers that only use one warrior skill that requires energy (crushing blow).......

IDK why you think I'm implying a warrior to run RaO. Maybe you should try thinking before posting? I think I made it quite clear that every advantage a thumper has over a warrior is not expertise linked, so nerfing the attribute would do nothing for the situation, as the only skill effected would be "Crushing Blow".

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

05 Apr 2008 at 21:52 - 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

I'm glad you have eyes, now try actualy using them and read.....

Uhm, seem like you still don't get it

Ok, try running a RaO at 0 expertise and enjoy.

shru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 21:54 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Uhm, seem like you still don't get it

Ok, try running a RaO at 0 expertise and enjoy.

This is a thread suggesting that the ranger attribute Expertise, should not be applied to secondary skills, idk why you suddenly thought that meant get rid of it all together?

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

05 Apr 2008 at 22:00 - 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

This is a thread suggesting that the ranger attribute Expertise, should not be applied to secondary skills, idk why you suddenly thought that meant get rid of it all together?

And I have no idea why you think fixing expertise would get rid of RaO in the first place???

Edit: and RaO is broken too, second that

shru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 22:04 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

And I have no idea why you think fixing expertise would get rid of RaO in the first place???

Obviously, you have not actualy read through this thread, so I'm going to leave you to your own musing in your little world back there. If you have something constructive to add, please feel free to post again, but as it is, your misinterpretations of nearly every post here have led me to believe you don't have a very strong mastery of the English language. Try to prove me wrong, kay?

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Apr 2008 at 22:16 - 182

Shru has got a point on the thumpers, however there is still the R/D and R/P's (latter one is actually less important, spear damage is just too huge).
But shru: Why should we NOT nerf expertise for secondaries, if you think thumpers are great it still allows thumpers to be played. (fixing RaO should be another thread then). At the same time it fixes the R/D's and the other crap that still has to be introduced.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

05 Apr 2008 at 22:22 - 183

If this thread is in glad forum, I would read it carefully.

You're trying to defend expertise by saying that RaO won't be effected by making expertise work on ranger skills only. And that is not the point. RaO is a stupid skill to start with, and god knows what other e-skills a thumper would pack in his bar as the meta changes.

And a full 5e Crushing Blow would make a difference.

Kyrein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Island of Undisclosed Location

05 Apr 2008 at 22:27 - 184

tyla, how is "c space button mashing" different from any other warrior?

please enlighten me

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

05 Apr 2008 at 22:47 - 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

tyla, how is "c space button mashing" different from any other warrior?

please enlighten me

And which warriors are you referring to there? The RA scrubs?

Would be easier to answer the question if you specified what kind of warriors. However, if you think that a standard shock axe bar in a top level GvG can be used effectively by "c-space button-mashing".. then, well - you need help.

Kyrein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Island of Undisclosed Location

05 Apr 2008 at 22:48 - 186

proposing to nerf d-slashers?thumpers? basically all they do is charge adrenaline and mash their attack buttons

Trylo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

[Here] | CKOD

E/R

05 Apr 2008 at 22:59 - 187

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Bow attacks fail? Anet had to shutdown Ranger Turrets.

Cripshot stops ANYTHING coming at you.

There are about 4 stances used ALOT in expertise, not to mention throw dirt, and the half range shots can deal out alot of damage.

Really, pressing the same skills is boring? O hai sins, u must be encredibly bord MIRITE?

R/A can go on FOREVER. I've seen DB/MB last a frick load of time, especially with zealous daggers.

Escape is good because its an IS, and it can protect you from melees, and the fact that rangers have 100 armor against elements makes it so mesmers and necros are mostly the only way to take them down.

sorry i didnt go into detail, i meant that bow attacks as damage generally do not work out without having glass arrows etc., and even then they are easily shut down by spirit bond (they have to be one of the easier spikes to see coming IMO as a monk). either way, paragons are better at dealing ranged damage while still being able to apply similar conditions, while also having party support and an IAS.

cripshot is good, where did you get the idea it wasnt?

4 stances used A LOT? really? the only one i ever see being used is [skill]natural stride[/skill] and its not even in expertise... throw dirt is just... not a good skill IMHO. it will last around 1/3 of the time on a 10 expertise bar. not only do you have to seek out a melee to use it on, you have to run up to them and cast it on them. or you could be a failure and use it when they reach you, however i enjoy stopping damage to my monk. proactive, not reactive. this skill is only viable as reactive, and being reactive < proactive.

i get insanely bored playing a sin. i think most good players do. and sins can use the MB/DB "trick" forever too... i dont see your point? at least sins get twisting fangs

escape is good because it gives a speed boost? rangers have at least 7 other skills that do that too, but arent elite. once again, [skill]natural stride[/skill] just seems so much better i dont understand why people want to take escape over it.

personally i think it comes down to the fact that rangers are the only class with inherent elemental armor, and having them be able to dodge melee just makes them the hardest class to take down. escape, however, is not the leading factor behind this. i bet that a natural stride with a free elite and rit healing would do better than the current meta.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

05 Apr 2008 at 23:13 - 188

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

escape is good because it gives a speed boost? rangers have at least 7 other skills that do that too, but arent elite. once again, [skill]natural stride[/skill] just seems so much better i dont understand why people want to take escape over it.

Put NS in expertise and you'll see lulz.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

06 Apr 2008 at 00:11 - 189

Quote:

R/A can go on FOREVER. I've seen DB/MB last a frick load of time, especially with zealous daggers.

R/A will go on forever. It costs 2 to use the skill, they gain 2 back from zealous. Actually, they end up gaining energy since they have 2 energy pips on top of it. I made a fun R/A build that actually was good but is no longer viable due to the OX nerf where I used -5 energy +15 daggers and full vitae. My max energy was 20, and it never dropped below 13 no matter what I did. Try the same thing with critical eye and 14 Critical strikes and you will still eventually run dry. Fun thing about R/A was that you could die, get ressed, and immediately start going at it again.

Quote:

R/D - any of the other numerous melee shutdowns you should have. i mean escape doesnt even give an IAS, uses their elite, and only helps their own dodge chance. i just dont understand how it has gotten as far as it has, it really doesnt seem like a good build. why even go ranger primary... at least you get wounding strike as a derv

Pious and rend touch is what makes the build viable. Both of those skills are very good...but due to the self enchant removal they end up being better on a ranger primary. It works because neither of those skills require an enchantment to be removed. That, and escape rangers are both annoying to kill and hard to kite ( actually, stupid to kite since you give them extra crit % )

....But none of it is overpowered. Stop QQ'ing.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

06 Apr 2008 at 03:47 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshenX

Can eles spend their energy on non ele skills ? Does a warriors strength attribute apply to non warrior weapons ? Can a necro use energy gained from soul reaping for non necro skills ? Can a sin use critical strikes with weapons other than daggers ?...

The question is: How much would they benefit from being able to do that, compared to the benefit Expertise grants?
How many secondary class spells are actually used/viable on Elementalists, Necros?

Yuhe Ji

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Los Angeles

E/

06 Apr 2008 at 04:04 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

The question is: How much would they benefit from being able to do that, compared to the benefit Expertise grants?
How many secondary class spells are actually used/viable on Elementalists, Necros?

They benefit a lot actually. The necro healers are very powerful, and so are the mesmer nukers.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

06 Apr 2008 at 04:36 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuhe Ji

They benefit a lot actually. The necro healers are very powerful, and so are the mesmer nukers.

Fast caster ele are terrible.

Anyways, Kashrlyyk has a very good point. Comparing the usefulness of expertise to other primary attributes...

Soul Reaping = unlimited energy, even with the timer "nerf" that had everybody complaining. Sabway works for a reason people.

Energy storage = useful

Divine favor = already limited to only monk skills (and is the nerf propossed to expertise, so this nerf has precidence).

Of the 10 primary attributes, Expertise is clearly the 3rd most useful (behind energy storage which allows stuff like E/Mos in GvG, and of course Soul reaping in PvE).

Now, wheter it deserves a nerf or not is another story, but you can't deny the fact that it is a powerful attribute.

Kyrein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Island of Undisclosed Location

06 Apr 2008 at 04:46 - 193

fast caster eles are terrible? my mesmer can easily outdamage an ele, while maintaining enough energy to use the skills often

Kale Ironfist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Australia

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

W/

06 Apr 2008 at 05:19 - 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

fast caster eles are terrible? my mesmer can easily outdamage an ele, while maintaining enough energy to use the skills often

Opportunity cost. You're expending an entire character slot to do half of what another character (assuming MB ele) does slightly more efficiently instead of using your Mesmer.

Kyrein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Island of Undisclosed Location

06 Apr 2008 at 05:53 - 195

its called a pvp slot

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

06 Apr 2008 at 06:16 - 196

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

fast caster eles are terrible? my mesmer can easily outdamage an ele, while maintaining enough energy to use the skills often

That's your problem. Eles completely suck when used solely for damage.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

06 Apr 2008 at 06:33 - 197

Fast Cast Mesmers are only good for RA where the point is to Mill the other side regardless of any teamwork or lack thereof. Outside of that, they fail for the same reason an ele with no utility fails. FC mesmers use up the slots an ele could be using for utility skill -( like HP, draw, wards, snare, ect. ) to give them emanagment in an attempt to make up for their lack of energy storage.

Kyrein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Island of Undisclosed Location

06 Apr 2008 at 06:49 - 198

i use one attunement

just like most eles

i don't call completely shredding mobs of people or solo capping any shrine in under 30 seconds in AB "fail"

Deadshot Seven

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

A/

06 Apr 2008 at 06:59 - 199

Honestly, the only thing I find extremely annoying are the touchers. Thumpers are fine by me. And the Ranger/Paragon combo is fun to run, with or without the actual build being abused in PVP.
I believe it would be better to just make it so expertise no longer effects touch skills, being that the only ranger touch skill is throw dirt.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

06 Apr 2008 at 07:04 - 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

i use one attunement

just like most eles

i don't call completely shredding mobs of people or solo capping any shrine in under 30 seconds in AB "fail"

Please reread Ketsu's post. He explains it quite well.

You sacrifice utility (condition removal, blocking enchants, etc). And it only works in AB/RA, low tiers of PvP. You will have energy issues in a longer fight. You can't kill people in GvG's/HA (unless with a spike build) in 30 seconds. In a 10-20 miniute long, non-stop fight, you will be in trouble.
High end PvP never sees those builds because they aren't that efficient. And if you are playing a fast cast ele in PvE... just make an ele.