PvE skill reversion, what do you want to see?
pumpkin pie
none actually, i am so use to playing the way the game is right now that I've forgotten how it was before, except the many many many many minions for necro, so if possible unlimited minions rise again!
ogre_jd
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Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart
Thats cos UB is used for steamrolling the allegedly Elite areas of the game, get your self to DoA, ToA, check out the lf ursan spam.
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Works quite well and the PUGs tend to be of better quality - even if an Ursan does happen to end up in it they tend to be better players and not the "lolololol! wy u not ursan?!!! n00b!!!!!" type.
Knight O Cydonia
I think what is most likely is not the balancing (huge buffs that some people are expecting) of pve varient skills, but the balancing of overpowered stuff in pvp first.
P.S. Tank-Nuke-Heal team builds are just as degenerate as Ursan Blessing team builds, only slower imo. If they are to nerf Ursan at any point in the future i would like to see them encourage lesser used professions / team builds to some degree.
P.S. Tank-Nuke-Heal team builds are just as degenerate as Ursan Blessing team builds, only slower imo. If they are to nerf Ursan at any point in the future i would like to see them encourage lesser used professions / team builds to some degree.
GloryFox
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posted by Sab Mesmers are terrible because PvE doesn't favour precise, single-target shutdown. Assassins are terrible because they are low-armored frontliners who are slow at switching targets (limiting attack chains to short recharge skills). |
As far as Assassins go Death Blossom is a great point blank AoE and with Skills such as Critical Agility, Critical Defenses, Flashing Blades Way of Perfection and Shroud of Distress you can keep your personal damage to a minimal. My best guess is that you have never truly met a good SIN player who understands their combat role. Ever see an assassin Solo Shiro in the Realm or Torment? Only the Assassin can do with ease.
70+ (Nightstalker's +15 when attacking) + 25 from CA = 110 Armor
Good enough for any PvE sin and more damage output than a Warrior or Pet.
I can't think of any Skills that need to be reverted for an Assassin for PvE they are virtually perfect the way they are now for PvE or PvP. Unless you are Speaking of changing Shadow Form & Feigned Neutrality (one build for PvE, and a lesser one for PvP)
Avarre
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
This just showed me how little you play these two classes.
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| The PvE game does favor individual target shut down quite well. |
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| The Enemies groups are usually half dead within only a few seconds with little energy to no energy even in Hard Mode. |
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| Yeah you just keep thinking a Mesmer can't compete with other classes by not doing AoE. |
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| Furthermore Mesmers usually punish enemy Spell Casters such as Monks and Elementalists, That leaves littles to deal with from PvE monster groups. |
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| As far as AoE damage Ever see a Hard Mode all Mesmer CoP Spike team? You can run through area's like a hot knife through butter. |
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| You are so wrong here PvE does indeed favor individual target shut down quite well. Once a enemy monk and AoE caster is down in a Monster Group what little else is there to deal with? |
You don't need a whole skillbar to kill things, either - there's enough space on 6 offensive characters for the party defense to soak up incoming damage while you tear apart the opposition.
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| Ever see an assassin Solo Shiro in the Realm or Torment? Only the Assassin can do with ease. |
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| more damage output than a Warrior |
Mini Masher
I would really like them to NOT make the revisions and leave the process as it has been balancing as needed and changing the skills for both PvE and PvP. Change is good, it forces you to think. Static play quickly becomes boring imo.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
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As for assassin: DB/MS spam needs focal point (enemy), which you need to change very often, restart chain, which takes valuable seconds. Most of PvE enemies die fast enough that you usually don't do more than 2x DB/MS even if your party does not focus fire on them. And by time your target is dead most other targets are so low on health that you dont even get to deaths blossom.. Average sin probably spends more time Running around and doing his intro than actually DB/MS. Master of Damage lies about sin damage potential because he allows you to exercise one endless chain. That does not means sins suck thou, but they are NOT that great either.
Assassin has different problem than viability: PuG People have no idea how good physical damage is. They don't know how to properly buff it either.
GloryFox
Usually casting their second and third spell before the PvE monster group monk or ele can get off their first heal or attack, by then it's usually over. Fast casting is so under rated. 
street peddler
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Originally Posted by KartMan
I don't know if someone posted it already, I would like spirit bond to be back to its old version ^^
ie : removing the 10 hits counter |
GloryFox
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| didnt they do that cause of farming in unwaking waters..? |
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Avarre
The enemy monk and AoE caster, because they are still alive. The method known as 'killing them' does not have this problem.
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The reason Mesmers are so strong in PvP, is because screwing up a single skill can make them die due to a spike. Having a certain skill shut down by Diversion allows spikes to easily get past, depending on the skill, and if it's a Monk.
Not only that, but they aren't built on predictable, easy to beat AI that is difficult to force through depending on who you're playing against. The people who you play against who know how to play, and having a Mesmer, or whatever profession, can be extremely favourable depending on the situation.
Sab
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
As far as Assassins go Death Blossom is a great point blank AoE and with Skills such as Critical Agility, Critical Defenses, Flashing Blades Way of Perfection and Shroud of Distress you can keep your personal damage to a minimal. My best guess is that you have never truly met a good SIN player who understands their combat role. Ever see an assassin Solo Shiro in the Realm or Torment? Only the Assassin can do with ease.
70+ (Nightstalker's +15 when attacking) + 25 from CA = 110 Armor Good enough for any PvE sin and more damage output than a Warrior or Pet. |
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
I can't think of any Skills that need to be reverted for an Assassin for PvE they are virtually perfect the way they are now for PvE or PvP. Unless you are Speaking of changing Shadow Form & Feigned Neutrality (one build for PvE, and a lesser one for PvP)
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Shadow Slave
If the Minion Cap is removed...as people are suggesting it should be - then [skill]Blood of the master[/skill] would seemingly need to be reverted too I assume?
(..Not that I can remember how the old version used to function after all this time.....)
With a couple of MMs on your team [In 'corpse-heavy dungeon I forget the name of '] for example...(with no limit to the number of minions) - the Sac could get quite juicy.
...Come to think of it, didn't they tamper with [skill]Verata's Sacrifice[/skill] too?
(..Not that I can remember how the old version used to function after all this time.....)
With a couple of MMs on your team [In 'corpse-heavy dungeon I forget the name of '] for example...(with no limit to the number of minions) - the Sac could get quite juicy.
...Come to think of it, didn't they tamper with [skill]Verata's Sacrifice[/skill] too?
Chthon
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Originally Posted by Shadow Slave
If the Minion Cap is removed...as people are suggesting it should be - then [skill]Blood of the master[/skill] would seemingly need to be reverted too I assume?
(..Not that I can remember how the old version used to function after all this time.....) With a couple of MMs on your team [In 'corpse-heavy dungeon I forget the name of '] for example...(with no limit to the number of minions) - the Sac could get quite juicy. ...Come to think of it, didn't they tamper with [skill]Verata's Sacrifice[/skill] too? |
My though is that it would be good to introduce some build diversity by giving players a choice between large-army-but-weak and small-army-but-strong. Towards that end:
* Leave BotM as it is. It's a fairly powerful heal, and the scaling life sacrifice imposes a "soft cap" on minion numbers, so it serves as the small-army-but-strong option.
* Revert VS to its old form, with an additional effect of doubling your life sacrifices for its duration (to prevent you from running both BotM and VS). It heals an unlimited number of minions, but not particularly well, so it serves as the big-army-but-weak option.
kvndoom
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
Yes they did, it was a PvE farming nerf. I strongly doubt they will revert that skill back to it's original form.
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{faints}
Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
Actually it came about from people doing EoE Suicide bombs in Alliance Battles.
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EoE was nerfed because of an HA gimmick, not Alliance Battles.
And Mesmers are generally not nearly as good as other classes in PvE, this is fact.
Stop Posting.
around
Wow, if EoE was nerfed because of edge bomb, then ANet are fail. EoE was the shittiest gimmick ever-good for a few lulz but not much else. It autolost to anyone with a clue.
More likely EoE was nerfed because of AB griefing althought I'm not actually sure why EoE was nerfed in the first place. You still can't second-guess ANet huh?
More likely EoE was nerfed because of AB griefing althought I'm not actually sure why EoE was nerfed in the first place. You still can't second-guess ANet huh?
Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by spawnofebil
Wow, if EoE was nerfed because of edge bomb, then ANet are fail. EoE was the shittiest gimmick ever-good for a few lulz but not much else. It autolost to anyone with a clue.
More likely EoE was nerfed because of AB griefing althought I'm not actually sure why EoE was nerfed in the first place. You still can't second-guess ANet huh? |
ogre_jd
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
And Mesmers are generally not nearly as good as other classes in PvE, this is fact.
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BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by ogre_jd
No, it is not fact. They just take more skill than the other more straightforward classes.
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Cathode_Reborn
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Originally Posted by ogre_jd
-snip-
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Tyla
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
There's often not much need for the heavy shutdown that a mesmer provide.
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The more physicals the more strength in interruption BHA gets.
And that's only 1 skill.
Cathode_Reborn
Last time I used my ranger in pve, I was runnin Prepared/Concussion Shot - daze bubbles everywhere 
strcpy
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
I'm not sure why people want GftE!'s recharge removed. Critical hits do not turn the tides of a losing battle in PvE. There are plenty of other ways to abuse leadership's absurd energy returns if for some reason your build is energy heavy.
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As for the skill in question I preferred it being used on a barrage ranger or my dervish because of the rate of adrenaline gain it was spammed quite a bit. If I had a paragon that used echoes it was also a nice one to go with that (again on a barrage ranger or a dervish), but then there are other shouts that work also I just usually felt that GftE! was the over all best. I don't care about using it for energy gain on my Paragon (I prefer +armor or damage mitigation shouts on mine).
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| Splinter Weapon outdamages any elementalist skill and it only costs 5 energy. There is no reason to revert it back when it is still one of the best skills in the game. |
Besides - the question was which skills would you like to see reverted and it is one I would like to see. I doubt very many will be "reverted" (in fact I generally figured none will be) so the whole point is probably moot anyway.
Further each and every nerf given to a skill can easily be defended by statements such as what you said about Splinter Weapon depending on if you agreed with the nerf in the first place or not. I don't see any real difference with the newer Soul Reaping mechanics (it was, and still is, the most powerful attribute line in the game) and see no reason to revert it - others differer in their opinion on that one too. But then I'm not about to tell someone they are wrong for liking the older version better. If we are to assume that if a skill has a reasonable reason to nerf then it will get nerfed and we further assume we only nerf skills that meet that definition then there is no reason to separate the two. Overpowered is overpowered - the reason to split is that PvE is all about some overpowered, "balance" in PvE is more about build variety and having fun with builds (in which the old version of Splinter Weapon better fulfilled those two ideas).
kooomar
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
Many mesmer skills are powerful in PvP but have long recharges (E-surge/Burn, Backfire), nasty downsides (Blackout), or have effects that are nearly useless in PvE (Shame, Diversion, E-denial in general). Stuff dies too fast in pve for mesmers to be well-suited there. In pve, you want to see big numbers pop up. Mobs don't have good monks to back them up = brute force wins 90% of the time. There's often not much need for the heavy shutdown that a mesmer provide.
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Mewcatus
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Originally Posted by strcpy
Further each and every nerf given to a skill can easily be defended by statements such as what you said about Splinter Weapon depending on if you agreed with the nerf in the first place or not.
I don't see any real difference with the newer Soul Reaping mechanics (it was, and still is, the most powerful attribute line in the game) and see no reason to revert it - others differer in their opinion on that one too. But then I'm not about to tell someone they are wrong for liking the older version better. If we are to assume that if a skill has a reasonable reason to nerf then it will get nerfed and we further assume we only nerf skills that meet that definition then there is no reason to separate the two. Overpowered is overpowered - the reason to split is that PvE is all about some overpowered, "balance" in PvE is more about build variety and having fun with builds (in which the old version of Splinter Weapon better fulfilled those two ideas). |
Crom The Pale
Something I've always wanted is to see the Area of AoE spells for Elementalists increased.
Having FireStorm and other ele spell switched from Adjacent to tarket to In The Area of target would be much more usable to coincide with the kiting of mobs.
Having FireStorm and other ele spell switched from Adjacent to tarket to In The Area of target would be much more usable to coincide with the kiting of mobs.
brad-
Make MM's useful again.
Make the necro touch skills spells or have longer recharge.
Bring LoD back to its usefulness.
Nerf SWAY and wounding strike.
Lengthen warrior tactic stances - all of them.
Remove rangers from the game.
Make the necro touch skills spells or have longer recharge.
Bring LoD back to its usefulness.
Nerf SWAY and wounding strike.
Lengthen warrior tactic stances - all of them.
Remove rangers from the game.
The Meth
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Something I've always wanted is to see the Area of AoE spells for Elementalists increased.
Having FireStorm and other ele spell switched from Adjacent to tarket to In The Area of target would be much more usable to coincide with the kiting of mobs. |
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Originally Posted by brad-
Make MM's useful again.
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Originally Posted by brad-
Make the necro touch skills spells or have longer recharge.
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Originally Posted by brad-
Bring LoD back to its usefulness.
Nerf SWAY and wounding strike. |
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Originally Posted by brad-
Remove rangers from the game.
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
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It would be great if PvE mesmers would somehow become viable, but it would require a great amount of skills to be changed and they probably wouldn't end up very mesmer-y anymore. We would just have a necro/ele hybrid with better clothes.
Agreed with everyone on reworking SR so it doesn't punish people who are good along with nerfing ursan into the ground.
Racthoh
SR seems fine; if my hero can play necromancer well why can't a human?
Pretty much the reason why skill revisions seem completely unnecessary for PvE. If no one skill is going to make an impact then what is the point in making these changes?
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Originally Posted by strcpy
In fact I have a hard time coming up with *any* skill that can turn the tide - if you are loosing it isn't going to be fixed by a single skill.
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Alleji
I can't believe people want SR and minion limit back... cause necros aren't OP enough, rite? Why don't we bring back ether renewal too?
strcpy
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Originally Posted by Mewcatus
This is a good reasoning, just wanted to reformat it from a wall of text to make it more reader friendly
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
Pretty much the reason why skill revisions seem completely unnecessary for PvE. If no one skill is going to make an impact then what is the point in making these changes?
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However Anet, in response to the community, says otherwise. I have skills I would love to see reverted so I listed them. I don't see Splinter Weapon, Soul Reaping, MM limit, and a few other things as being particularly needing of balance in PvE. As such listing them answers the OP's question - I preferred the older versions. In fact for some cases, such as given how we now keep our minions alive I think think something like an unlimited minion limit is VERY balanced and VERY interesting in PvE (yet is horridly unbalanced in PvP). The changes to BOTM is interesting in this case.
Ah well - such will be any system. Some will like it, some will not, and some will not ever really notice.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by brad-
Make MM's useful again.
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| Make the necro touch skills spells or have longer recharge. |
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| Lengthen warrior tactic stances - all of them. |
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| Remove rangers from the game. |
Anything else is either weak compared to a WoD Necro, an AoM Dervish, a Dev / Magehunter.
If you're getting rid of Rangers, get rid of Mesmers because Diversion hurts aswell.
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by brad-
Make MM's useful again.
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zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
I must've missed the update when they became useless.
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When did that happen?
tmakinen
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Originally Posted by strcpy
I've never understood why the PvE crowd (of which I am nearly 100% a part of) gets angry at most skill balances.
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Actually, most of PvE is totally indifferent to skill balancing. In the past we've been doing wacky things like sealed deck play (essentially random skillbars) or hench vanquishing (players must use the exact skillbar of a hench of their primary profession, secondaries or consumables not allowed) - both result to what most sane people would call terribad builds but it's still ok because it's PvE and everything goes.
The only area where even minor skill changes may have huge consequences is soloing. Many builds rely on very specific properties of certain skills and a tiny change may render the entire build unusable.
And what's wrong with the original Ether Renewal? It was hot cakes back in summer '05 when GW was actually a fun and rewarding game
R.Shayne
I would like to see some skills returned to their original status; [energizing wind], [Splinter Weapon], [protective bond] but I have moved on and adapted to the changes. Don’t trap anymore in the UW and don’t low level farm with my ranger anymore and use [protective spirit].
Instead of creating a huge update where every skill is changed I would rather see a select few skills changed that really need it and for the most part just leave pve alone. If they have the resources to make changes in gw1 I would rather see them fix / implement some other things then change skills.
How are the forms and wiki going to handle two different skill with the same name?
Instead of creating a huge update where every skill is changed I would rather see a select few skills changed that really need it and for the most part just leave pve alone. If they have the resources to make changes in gw1 I would rather see them fix / implement some other things then change skills.
How are the forms and wiki going to handle two different skill with the same name?
Tyla
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
And what's wrong with the original Ether Renewal? It was hot cakes back in summer '05 when GW was actually a fun and rewarding game
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Provided extremely strong energy management, just as Mind Blast did, just alot more powerful and straight off.
I'm not sure exactly how powerful it was though. I think it was used immensely on flag runners in GvG, so I'm guessing: Pretty powerful.
phan
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Originally Posted by brad-
Remove rangers from the game. |
I could give about 100things why you should be killed etc ; instead i'm going to give 1
skill + dshot = win =)
Nightow
- Tune up Communing and Spawning. Splinter Barrage is still nice atm but it's either that or run a hybrid build for ritualists. 2 builds != fun.
- Nerf Healing Prayers or just simply [Healer's Boon].
- Nerf Fire magic, used wayyy too often in PvE for it's AoE spells.
- Buff [Way of the Fox] or other skills that help in getting past annoying blocking mechanic.
- Reduce the aftercast delay on some Dervish Enchants.
- Remove the Cracked Armor condition from [Aggressive Refrain] or update the Monk AI to not bother removing the condition.
- Update Monk AI to NOT HEAL MINIONS.
- [incoming] <- Revert please. I find it funny and sad that Kormir has this as her elite but it does squat.
- Reduce casting time on most motivation skills.