The majority of the community sucks (or does it?)

Many things changed. But the game "improved" for the worse unfortunately. The way PuGs have died out compared to when GW proph or even Factions were released, tells us about how great GW is as an multiplayer Coop game...and apparently Anet agrees too, since they are going to remove Heroes in GW2...

So, maybe it's true that many things change, but the fact that Anet decided to add stuffs which goes against their original policies (Grind) means that the game switched direction and went for the cheap way. + Dumbing down of a game is never good for a game.

Have you heard anyone who was playing GW proph during its glory days tell you that they could c+space through the whole game?

Which do you think is a better game? a game where you play and have to actually be active and follow orders and work as a team? or would you prefer a game where you can basically click c+space and read a book while waiting for the mission to end?

As for pvp, too many exploits and abuse already, and I don't really want to get into it...

But it's true though, Anet did a marvelous job creating GW. It's just too bad they did not manage to keep the consistency. But hopefully, they'll get it right with GW2...

Whatever is this supposed to mean?

1) Baldur's Gate party with various missile weapons tear through the entire game very easily without having to go in melee.

2) Melee characters being dominant doesn't say anything directly about balance, but does hint that whatever game you are playing is balanced.

Uh, appealing to certain types of players as opposed to several types is indeed a degradation of quality. This is pretty much going exactly off of what Boko said: the changes were not for the better.

I can't say I didn't see a terrible amount of imbalance in BG2, but I can say that sorc soloing was pretty damn funny (in the worst sense possible, though).

Your telling me that your you could just solo all mission with ps?

Please we all know that these are just cheap exploits that were use for farming. Similarly, look at both sides, the same situation still exists, and did not really changed. Similarly, I can say that "I could farm UW dry on my own using PermaSin by just moving around, didn't even need to c-space". But could you c+space back then? Did you ever did THK at that time with a hench team at that time?

Don't try to hide the truth... what I am saying are facts...

Edit :
About Pvp, erm no. Most of the matches were played using 8 man team without bots.... and there were much less exploits to abuse. The game was more about skills instead of present-build wars...but that's mostly my opinion... I might be wrong, maybe it got better since i quit...i seriously dun't follow gw pvp anymore since i'm more busy with other stuffs IRL...

And yes, I want the same thing as you too. So, let's hope for the best!

And how did that change from now? Take the same situation now and you will get the same result... why? because the player is bad... nothing to do with the game itself. You are talking about player skill...

What I am telling you is that before it was insanely hard to do THK with hench, and now it is a piece of cake where I can basically sit around and do nothing... Now that is so wrong... a challenge reduced to nothing...

Again you are quoting player skill. A good team will always be good. Btw, while you were c+spacing, I don't think that the German team was c+spacing because if they did , they would be what you were referring to as a bad pug... and you would all be dead from the start...

While you were slacking off and missing out on the fun, I can assure you that they ,on the other hand, were having hell of a good time playing the game...

Yes. I was overjoyed too when I heard about heroes but I was naive at that time. Reality is harsher than you think...


That is a truth that I want to hear too, but which I am afraid is closer to what I think it is...and knowing ANET, we will never know, at least until GW2 is out...

I know! With good PuGs, it's really fun usually
That's why I probably miss them so much

im a little bit late on the time spent on games discussion, but i think theres a difference between time spent playing a game because its required, and time spent playing a game because you want to.

gw requires what? 1000+ hours to get max koabd? and so people will spend that much time getting it. mega man nes series (1-6) requires maybe 100 hours or less to beat it. however, i will tell you that i have probably spent just as many hours on mega man as i have in gw (pve...i won't count pvp).

i think a more deciding factor is not how many hours will a game require to beat, but how many hours will you spend still playing it after you have beaten it (aka re-playability). i think "arcade classics" and "console classics" have proven the test of time.


regarding pugs:
i really don't like this attitude that pugs suck and therefore will use heroes instead. the community is dying because we refuse to play together. if no one is playing together and sharing knowledge, the community as a whole grows less. one of the only thing thats keeping the community alive right now in terms of skill level is wiki, and to a degree fan forums.

I won't and can't, for the simple reason that most of my posts on GWG are from my work during luchtime. Or, like now, at the end of the day while finishing up some last bits of work before going home.
Before I am posting I'm constantly reverting and editing things I said (I've changed this part at least 5 times so far), when making a guide it's even more editing and rewriting. And for several guides I would need a working GW client to check some things.

Besides that, there are numerous 'starter' guides both here on GWG as on wiki. Starting isn't the real problem. It's people that for some reason get 'stuck' in their gaming development and can't move past that point.
On that level we are talking about more depth of understanding a certain profession's strengths and weaknesses and controling the environment (positioning, aggro control, certain game mechanics).
Past that level there is another hurdle (still talking PvE), mainly dealing with team builds and synergy.

That's what I mean when I speak about details.
Positioning is relative to the environment and the strengths and weaknesses of professions depend on the used attributes and the foes that are faced.
It's not something easily explained explained.

But, these are mainly the things when people start to talk about good and bad players. They (even I) judge people on builds at first and the position on the field after entry of the environment. When talking about good team-leaders it's about how well they can get a working team together.
And I'm easy, when someone pings an odd build I just ask them to explain why it works.

Off-topic, I'm still working on my switch but can't play much at the moment because I somewhat hurt some muscles in my shoulder which causes pain after about 30 mins of typing/playing. But I've noticed several other players are having the same kind of problem so I might just chat with some people and/or bring them together.
Because learning together is more fun than learning alone

I claim that:

* You can give player enough info to start way way past that point where people get stuck.
* Intimate class understanding is easily summarizable. And easily understandable. All you need to do is to get rid of carebear attitudes (aka, "everything works", which is for masters).
* And so is strategy and team interaction.

Because few, important, observations completelly change how game is understood and played.

It may take years to gather this info, but it can take hours to absorb it, understand it and act on it.

Picture slighly related: Most guides start with "master" philosophy, while, in fact, they should start with apprentice philosophy. This is why players get stuck, because attempt is made to teach them backwards. Which just leads to lots of problems.

I knew you were an agile dev zwei2stein!

I still say the thread is on topic. You had to expect that the conversation would evolve to every aspect of the discussion rather than just stay on your small fixed topic.

You can't create this community. At least I don't believe you can. In life there is just a seperation between the "bad young stupid illiterate" and the "good experienced smart intelligent" and that extends over to Guild Wars. There is even a seperation between the rich and poor. The only way a person is going to escape being "bad young stupid illiterate" (or poor) is through wanting to get out of it themselves. A guide (that already exists IMO) is not going to teach them why being "good experienced smart intelligent" is good for them. In reality, most people who are "bad young stupid illiterate" either think they aren't that way or they realize they are and have fun with it which makes the idea even more impossible.

Maybe I am still missing your point. You talk about a community that "cares" about each other. I don't think you can create that community either. For starters most of the "bad young stupid illiterate" people in Guild Wars are mostly soloing with heroes pretending nobody exists now, so THEY don't care about each other either. The other problem is that the "good experienced smart intelligent" people tend to spend their time getting MORE "good experienced smart intelligent" because that is how they got "good experienced smart intelligent" to begin with. Spending time teaching or teaming with "bad young stupid illiterate" people just doesn't work in Guild Wars for so many reasons....mostly because in Guild Wars (like I have been saying all along) the rewards for being "good experienced smart intelligent" and teaching people to be so have dropped drastically over the years, and the consequences for being "bad young stupid illiterate" are almost nonexistent.

So you are a teacher (I think IRL?) so you probably disagree with me, but this is how I feel on the topic having played Guild Wars for several years and running into these situations constantly. I still don't know if I've answered you (because you keep saying I haven't), but I'm sure somebody has answered your question a long way back.

This is a common misconception. They didn't introduce titles to "give us something to do"....they could give a rats ass about us having something to do. They gave us titles and HoM so we would have another reason to buy Guild Wars 2 in case we didn't have one yet. Essentially, they degraded their entire Guild Wars 1 philosophy to sell Guild Wars 2 if you want me to put it bluntly.

Pretend it is all underhand wiffle ball pitches (like GW PvE basically is nowadays). You still suck. You won't be any good until you can hit fastballs (PvP) at 30%. The problem is so many people are either afraid to miss that 70% or don't want to step up to the plate at all. Ok my analogy went away from its original meaning but I thought this was good too lol. I just thought that one guys post about "if you are having fun you are playing the game right" was a stupid comment.

Of course people are going to say that. What else did you expect?

I keep hearing this from people and I keep saying it is dumb. "The game failed as a coop game because it couldn't sustain itself so they changed direction because of that". WRONG....people who have been playing this game forever know that THEY CHANGED DIRECTION SO THE COOP OF THE GAME FAILED. You are looking at it backwards. The coop of this game in the beginning was a huge success, particularly the PvP which is basically something unique that hadn't ever been done in that way.

I also think the idea that "we all improved that is the reason THK is easy for us now" is also dumb. THK is easy for us now because we have overpowered crap to blow through it with our eyes closed. The only reason newbs wouldn't be able to blow through it is only because they don't know about or don't have the overpowered crap, not because they suck at the game. If anybody thinks the game is better today where we can heroway c-space our way through the entire game is better than the old days when we have to have a competent human team working together to beat a mission (which was also the greatness of PvP), well then I feel sorry for you. The game was so much better in every way back in the old days its not even close. Guild Wars today isn't shit compared to what it once was and I can't believe anybody thinks otherwise. The phenomenon has led to a suckier game and a suckier community who thinks the suckier game is actually better because it fits their sucky style of play. /endrant

As stated numerous times, all of this - the general dumbing down of the game - is addressing issues that the majority player is not going to care about. At the surface, Guild Wars is a very fun game, and for them that's all that's going to matter.

i disagree. i have come across very few guides that start on a "master level" as you say. in fact whenever i buy guides, it is purely for the art that is contained in them, not for the basic info that is found within them because it is too basic for me. in terms of gw specific, pvxwiki gives you exact builds and explains how to use them. how is this not "apprentice level"? it doesn't tell you to run anything you wan't.


btw, there is too much bickering in this thread. problems of gw have been presented in this thread for the purpose of trying to improve gw and its community. if you think gw and its community are already perfect and do not need any "improving", then there is no reason for you to argue in this thread (i won't name any names).

If you want hardcore, I guess you'll just have to wait for Vin Diesel's MMO. Yes that's right, he's developing an MMO, and it's in Bellevue just like ArenaNet.

Most guides intend to tell you information, however they don't always take into account who their audience is, what information to convey, and how best to convey that information. Additionally, some types of information are near impossible to convey using a traditional guide. The wiki is a fairly poor guide for builds.

well its more a "database" than a "guide". so if you don't know what or where to look, it can be confusing and therefore considered a poor guide (since technically it isn't one at all). but the content there is very valid imo and so if you do know what your looking for and where to find it, then it will be an invaluable resource. it does not really go beyond "breaking" or "ignoring" the rules as per zwei2stein stated in "master level".

the same can be said about the wiki. it is meant to be more of an encyclopedia/database of information--not a guide. if you do not know how to use a wiki, then yes a wiki about gw will be less useful to you. are kids not taught how to use encyclopedia's or how to research books in schools these days?

i guess people want/expect more of a step-by-step walkthrough guide format?

perhaps its not that they're teaching a "master level" process as zwei2stein said, but that the material is presented in a wiki writing format vs a guide writing format? so you may be right, savio, that they are fairly poor guides... but certainly not because they present "master level" content.

Not relinking for size reasons, but that chart is very valuable. As mastery increases, things come easier and more naturally. Fundamentally, you don't start being yourself until you have reshaped yourself into being a master.

I don't know if guides actually do this; I think players designate themselves as masters shortly after buying the guides, and proceed to operate in this manner. They assume the simple act of finding the information (like from a guide or wiki) propels them into a higher level of mastery at which they can skip the apprentice/journeyman steps. This encompasses a little of what snaek was saying.

In other words, they might think that mastery is directly transmissible from another master, instead of something that must be developed from within. It's like with learning, typically people assume they are smart because they can work from previously given equations. Smart people were the ones who first derived them. Just like players think they are skilled, when all they have done is work from the knowledge base someone else has provided for them.

You see tons of people online? Hmm interesting. Tell you what...I'll give you a list of 50 outposts and get back to me when you find a team in any of them.

I play many other games. I am just one of many people who post here but don't play the game seriously anymore...I quit for the very reasons I have discussed in this thread.

You know what, I'm giving up on this idea, completely. It's going to make my life much easier. I'll ask mods to close it, which may or may not happen based on what they think.

Ty in particular to Master Fuhon and the_jos (also zwei2stein).

Agree.

The way I learned GvG back ages ago was learning to play one build till complete understanding. Here you have a build, no complaints, just play it.
Learn to feel it, play on instinct. Next we adjust one skill, again learn to feel the build.
It works in PvP because it's a demanding area. In PvE, I'm not sure.

It's not because of the 'everything works' way, more because of the diversity of players. In PvP, I assume every player now has a PvP character. If not, delete one of your precious PvE characters and make a PvP one.
If you don't have all skills for the build you can play some RA/AB/JQ till you have them, no Zkeys till them.
I had several guildies who were able to play one or two builds when they joined (high end PvE guild). First demand for them was to get some additional skills so they could run a greater variation of builds. And builds that were more generic than their own builds.

But again, that demand was there because those guildies knew they were joining a high end guild.
Those demands would not have been there in a regular guild.


@Fril,

Too bad you are giving up.
On the other hand, I think it's not something that people should do alone.
I won't mind writing some stuff, I can hardly play at the moment but can still type (or write stuff down and type later).
But I don't know where most players get stuck nowadays, so I have no clue to start.

The playerbase is just fine imo. Might be getting a bit small (tho I believe it actually grew up since the last time I played) - its just spread over friggin 4 continents..

As for the "understanding" and "mastering" (sorry, I really dont believe GW has to offer THAT much in the learning curve, but I come from a different background, so I can't really comment objectively on that) I don't really see what you guys expect more of a random bunch of people. Sure, you can all write bazillions of wonderful informative articles on every little aspect of it. But is spoonfeeding going to make the players much better?

Havent read everything so sorry if this is useless bs ))


PS Seriously, can you think of another game (especially MMORPGs) that has that good a playerbase, after 4 years life-time? I have difficulties with that, most derail severely

@fril
i really don't think dreamwind and bryant again are to blame for derailing the thread. the op assumes that there is a problem with gw that needs fixing. they simply presented and analyzed these problems. the topic is the "why". nowhere in the op, is there a "call to action" that suggests we discuss the "how," as in "how to solve the situation" (though personally, i agree that it should end up there).

and to be honest, it could have ended up in "how" much sooner, but naysayers like improvavel insist that gw has no problems. which resulted in endless amounts of pages for needlessly defending their viewpoint. which, according to the op would still be on topic because you only imply that gw player's are bad--you do not state it as fact. this allows the thread to argue whether or not player's are actually bad.

so really...what's the problem? no one's breaking any rules here.


@gun pierson
numbers only mean so much. sure, people spend many hours on gw, but how many hours do people spend time on oblivion? what i'm implying here is that both are "single player" games. i.e. we are not arguing that gw is inactive, we are arguing the fact that the active community of gw no longer plays together as much.

it doesn't matter how much "player activity" there is if there is no "player interaction."

God forbid someone might play a game because they just want to have fun.

^if i have fun by punching you in the face, does that make it right? no, it just means that being wrong can be fun.

As far as I was aware, punching other players in the face is not actually possible in Guild Wars. Though you could perhaps have your character punch their character... in which case... you're having fun in PvP, so yeah, it is right.

The thing snaek was saying is that vouching for "fun" can only go so far. You can't just promote a drastic change and say it's "just for fun". You have to list the pros, cons, and how it would be consistent and healthy for the game.

For example: saying I want all heroes removed simply because they "make the game less fun for me" is not terribly acceptable (although, that's a pretty bad example in retrospect).

I'm sorry if we ruined your dreams here, but I personally think you got your answer from this thread. The answer is that what you are suggesting would probably not work for all the reasons given by me and others.

That is impossible, as Anet hasn't given us the numbers and they are the only ones who have them. Anything you read is false.

So claiming 3 outposts have people in them means the game is alive? Hmm ok...I hope you read my post where I said Guild Wars as a multiplayer game is dead. It is a single player game now, which for all intents and purposes means it is dead to me because I would rather hack my leg off with an ax than play Guild Wars as a single player grinder game.

I think your entire paragraph here and your "truth" is wrong...except for the part about PvE having higher numbers, which while true, is also misleading for reasons I have pointed out in other threads.

I don't mind people having fun. The problem is when they have fun knocking over the pieces in chess and claiming they are playing the game right. It is almost equivalent to having fun playing terrible in Guild Wars and claiming they have skill.

The established problem with removing heroes is that the people who're playing with heroes now will simply play with henchmen if they can't use heroes, solo builds if they can't play with that, and not play at all if humans are mandatory.

The reason full hero parties is a GOOD thing is that it adds to the fun of those who want it but doesn't take fun away from ANYONE.

So? Let them do that, it's their choice. You don't have to play with them.

So it doesn't make for a quality game. If it didn't matter we would see every single dev allowing for god mode and insta-kill buttons in the main menu, not as "cheat" (emphasis on "cheat") codes.

And the "doesn't take fun away from anyone" is a pretty hard thing to define at this point, and I understand ANet not - wow screw this, I'm not going back to that 7-heroes thread.

Actually in the chess example it wouldn't be my choice.

As for Guild Wars and this thread though, the problem is that these types of players are everywhere and there is no solution for them (people in this thread are looking for solutions to the problems). The changes to Guild Wars have indirectly caused an uprising in these types of players who can play solo all by theirselves sucking thinking they should be able to do whatever they want in the game and its ALRIGHT (Improvavel comes to mind he wants god mode). As long as Guild Wars caters to these people, the majority of the community in it will always suck and nothing will ever change that (including any guide).

I already told you why I play the game. When I bought the game it was because of PvP. I played some. Was fun. if not for my GF I wouldn't be playing GW at all.

Sincerely, I consider RPGs a bit retarded, especially online ones without even a story.

Titles, trading, running another character through the game is all content.

So Kamadan has 6 districts, but 100 other outposts have 0 people in them and the game is alive. I'm glad we don't agree on the definition of alive.

Also, 6 districts is nothing. Back in their heydey, PvP arenas like Tombs/HA had double that with regularity.

As long as people come back for title farming weekends right? I logged on for the Cantha event and all I saw were thousands of AFK lucky/unlucky farming accounts. I'm so happy everything is wonderful in the world of Guild Wars.

I thought we've been over this. Let's get back on topic though.

Actually I am highly considering making a thread called "The lies Anet has told us" with a list of at least 25 lies over the last 4 years backed up with sources. I have yet to have the time to do so though but look for it in the future when I'm bored.

Let's get back on topic now though...I don't want this thread locked because it makes me happy.

Even I log on during festival and leave my char AFK, and I see many people who do the same and leave their char afk. Add my bro's acc to it, and you have 2 already from me. Now lets' assume many people do the same and we have a whole population of AFK chars that only appear during festival to get the hats and be gone and never log on for ages till the next festival if I ever want to bother or if I'm not busy. Now tell me how this count as active community to you? You're right when you say that it's ridiculous...because I would not exactly classify me as active anymore...

Then according to you, we would not actually need GW2 since it's all glitter and glamour now, right?

Because you know what? GW2 is sounding completely different from GW1 from the interviews, starting with the companions system.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2

And it seems that it is heading for a more Coop game, fortunately...

GW1 may be a success story, but that does not mean that the devs are perfect. The success of GW1 is mainly built on the proph and faction campaign's legacy. The amount of exploits that they created while releasing new contents and especially new skills testify for that, even if they tried to fix them with band aids later on. Still, the fact is they did make mistakes.

However, they are human and it's in our nature to err. Quite understandable. Few of us can actually produce something as great and deliver a perfect good. But, that do not justify that you place them on a pedestal and pretend that they NEVER make mistakes and use newpaper (e.g. Success Story of GW) propaganda to justify your reasonings.


Edit :
Well maybe, from the sound of it, Anet should have added an offline mode a-la-PhantasyStarUniverse, with all the god mode for those who want it...this way people who really want to play alone can, and those who want to play coop can without really interfering with each other...But's it way too late for this solution now...

Edit again: Grammatical mistakes...ZZzzz

The problem is that some people already classified the community as "FAIL" before they were even given the chance to prove themselves...let alone expect them to teach the community or enlighten those who need help...

From my experience, I learnt a lot by experimenting with builds and watching OB, and while interacting with other players. The more experienced players taught me a lot, and expecially about pvp. PvE was more about trial and error and experimenting on my own with some hints here and there from friends.

Just because I don't agree with the solutions presented and the way of implementing them ("it is this way because we are Gods and need to make people better regardless of their will and if they don't like it too bad, because they are bad, lazy, idiots, etc"), doesn't mean i don't see problems,
but the solutions can't be to force people into the direction you want. In real life it is already problematic, in a game it is impossible because people will simple hit the "x" button on the top right of the screen and give you the finger.

One of the main problems of this game is the incredible "low income" or "useful" stuff you get from playing with a regular 8 people party. That is what leads to farming, either solo or in teams.

If you just increase the amount of drops based on number of players (and I mean useful drops; players include heroes) present, and then make it impossible to farm certain critical areas, like in UW, by smart skill change, like shadow form ending if you are another enchantment is present, people "might" play in a different way.

Now, if the only thing you do is reduce "carrots" available, people will just be fed up and leave. PC's RPG, mulitplayer or not, are places where people collect stuff, from xp points, to levels, to items, to whatever.

Most of the suggestion on this thread range from "need to teach them to play the game in a way some consider it the correct way" (and the correct way is emulating pretty much the PvP play style, disregarding AI is different from people, so things are different) to "lets remove all the things that are overpowered to increase difficulty so people need to learn and start playing the way some consider the correct way, and when the those things are removed start on the only strong stuff" to even "only a few are actually meant to do the elite areas since it is elite after all and we need a pyramid community structure".

PC RPG are collector games. Most people will play it the way it allows you to collect more stuff in the fastest way possible.

I know it can be depressing to see someone that is carrying the uber leet gear and can't do an elite area or even some of the normal mode missions without using consumables and tank strategies.

Yesterday, for example, I played with one guy that basically is a farmer and a trader. There he was with obsidian armor, chaos gloves, blindfold, crystalline sword, tormented shield. His build? Dragon slash, sever artery, gash, final thrust, bonetti's defense, riposte and d-riposte, wary stance and rebirth.

Boost drops based on team size. Boost drops in elite areas after certain amounts of time elapsed.

That will solve most of the problems just there and show a "carrot" to players that want to change.

All this nerf nerf, reduce drops, talk is against what PC's RPGs are and will piss people. Like in real life, you can either punish those that deviate or you can lure those that wish to be better and surpass themselves with better rewards.

You can't just forget this is a game and not real life, though. People don't have to be better. People can simply show you the finger and press that "x" in the top right. People are here to have fun and not to have another job.

Alot of players are refusing to play with each other because the backwards way of thinking by some players is the following:

I refuse to PUG, all PUG's fail contantly, all other players that are not in my friends/guild/allience list fails.

So when you get a group of players that think like this what happens? Yep they all refuse to play with each other because everyone but them and the few people they know suck, right?

Its even more apparent in this thread, we have a group of people posting how a group of people suck and by changing a few skills in this game is magically going to make people want to group with each other again...

Also if this discussion was about a group of PvP players, how they fail and few skills should be changed to promote more skillfull play. I'm guessing it would've been locked pretty fast...

Yes, and still the fact remains that a population of afk does not actually reflect a healthy playing population.

Seriously, imagine a situation like that:
Person A : Hey, do you play Guild wars actively?
Person B : Yes, Of course! I play Nine Rings! I'm Very good at it! I earnt x amount of ticket last time!
Person A : erm...ok.... So wanna play this saturday?
Person B : sure!

Next saturday, Person B was as he said he was on the nine rings and "playing".... while person A waited for him to come back...

Yes, seriously, this is how Gw was meant to be played...

Reread what you said. You said that for GW(old) to change to curernt-GW, then that means GW(old) needed a change and that it was not "all glitter and glamour" and that according to you, current-GW was fine.

To which, I ask you if it was fine now, why release GW2 since according to you, there need to be a problem to mandate a change. GW2 is closer to GW
(old) in that it's more coop than current-GW. Maybe, your current GW ain't as perfect as you think. And your logic says so too, but it's just that you are in denial...

Add that info to what you already know about how GW missions actually take place and realise by yourself what it means.

Sure, you would be able to go into a mission solo, but if you want to handicap yourself, your welcome to...

If you still don;t get it, think of doing any missions on your own with either companion or buff with your party counter saying 1/4,1/6 or 1/8....


Edit:
I don;t see what Blizzard has to do with my post. I avoid WoW like a disease, and don;t want to get engulfed into it.

Reread the past posts, including yours. If you still don;t get it, I think you never will. I am not gonna try to preach to a converted. I said my part and I don;t think that I need to add more. It's clear enough. If you don;t see it, then it's because you don't want to see it. Each one their own mind and thoughts.

Flamebait? Nice try.

Edit: My bad about the flamebait...misread... If you were in favour of the 7 heroes, then that explains a lot...

If people prefer to be afk in nine rings instead of playing with you, maybe the problem isn't with the game.

People seem to just show up in game and expect to have everyone there just ready to go play with them, doing whatever they want to do.

That won't happen.

I also remember 3 years ago to take hours to find a party (or better the monks) to do the desert missions while the outposts were filled with 55 monks.


Anet needs GW2 because GW model of business and stand alone expansions crippled any chance to develop the new strategy Anet have for GW.

If you look at it both factions and nightfall are more of the same prophecies, some differences, but same old same old.

EoTN, if it had been launched after prophecies would seem like a step forward. Since it was launched after factions and nightfall seems another side addition.

Anet wanted to create a PvP game that could become a landmark e-sport.

That failed.

For several reasons, starting from the fact that players that want to play competitive PvP don't want to do PvE before delving into the PvP.

Anet changed direction. Anet needs a business model to keep making money. Their current model of start PvE and then move people to PvP and then sell them another PvE campaign every 6 months proved to make no sense.

GW was and is doomed, regardless of being what it was in the beginning or what it is now. It was thought and designed to be something. That something proved to not be self sustaining. Anet tried to change GW. The model in place wasn't designed to accommodate the new direction.

I don't know what GW2 will be. I expect it to be more what GW is now than what it was. If it is implemented in the correct way, without having to rely on "bandage fixes", and providing to be different and give options games like WoW don't give (playing solo/duos for example) it will be successful.


You are thinking that the game style will be the same as GW. If monsters power change with number of people present, if the professions are self sustaining (a la Diablo II), that could mean doing a mission solo with no problems.

Actually, I would rather GW2 still required a structured team and gave heroes as options to fill in the gaps. I hope health potions don't show up.



Blizzard isn't just WoW. Blizzard is one of the few that have never burned their costumers yet. They promise fun for each of their games audiences and they deliver.

Liking the type of the game in question or not, it is a complete different story.

Actually I looked into GW because a large portion of the people involved in Anet came from Blizzard. So you can see Blizzard name carries weight.

I think you reading too deep and missed the whole point of my post in the 1st part. It was a caricatural and hypothetical exaggerated context to elaborate a point.

Edit : Elaborated a bit