SF Argument

If SF was only a farming skill, I wouldn't care (which is why I don't mind 55 monks and the like). However, that's not what SF is. SF is complete invulnerability for 95% of PvE. Almost nothing can hurt you. And the few things that can? They can't kill you, because even with 33% less damage, you can still gank stuff pretty well.

It is godmode, pure and simple. Godmode has no place in this game. And even if it did, it's not fair to reserve it for one profession and one profession only. Give everyone the ability to maintain SF indefinitely, and then maybe there will be an argument that SF is ok.

Nerf it to be honest. Guild Wars has become dull and boring in the last few years anyway, mainly because PvE in GW is retard proof. A new challenge would be fun...at least until we all bugger off to Aion anyway.

Just wondering if those calling for the nerf of SF think that these areas will suddenly fill with players wanting to spend four hours clearing UW? Or will it just turn into HA with the "you're not good enough to join our group?"

i've honestly noticed that ppl always complain about things because then can't do it, just because someone doesnt have the skill to do something doesnt mean they have to be babies cause others can, hell yea i do uwsc and fowsc but when i wanna kill time and hang out i dont mind doing then the normal way i think it should be you option to do this however u wanna do it with out ppl crying and getting it nerfed cause they are pmsing

you should just do things your way and let others do it their way

A11Eur0-

Your argument that shadowform allows people with minimal time to play elite areas is completely flawed. All the shadowform farms are very heavily reliant upon PVE skills as a source of direct damage or PVE skills are needed to buff the damage to acceptable levels.

With the above reliance on PVE skills for ____ SC you need to have EOTN and you need at least play through the game and get decent ranks (r8+) for it to be truly effective. I know some people don’t get their ranks high, but they really should be maxed or near it to effectively run the builds. Now who has time to grind out 56k points four times over, or if you max them 160k points four times? This can be done quickly through HM hero hand books but again, the casual player won’t have time or the knowledge to do this .

There is also the issue with professions. When the CRYWAY groups in DOA first started, the major source of damage was ER criers, well now that bar is dead, time to reroll a PVE char. The cryway groups have moved onto FOC necros. You should also remember that before the SF buff nobody used sins for elite areas. Now once the buff occurred everyone started sins and ran them through all the games so they could farm. This again brings up the point that for a causal player with limited knowledge it would be very hard to do this. Also each time you reroll a char you have to invest money into weapons, armor heros etc; again another thing the casual player wont have (money)

You can also look back to URSAN, at first it was great everyone could play on any class. Then as time went on people realized Warriors were the best class, so everyone made a warrior and grinded out R10 norn. Also if you wished to participate in DOA you had to have at least R8 LB, again this was more grind of PVE titles and again limiting casual players.

To summarize, the elite areas aren’t for the truly casual player that plays the game for a couple hours a week. With balanced you are required to have significant knowledge of the game or with speedclear groups you are required to grind out PVE titles. The upside to balanced groups though is that they don’t really very heavily on PVE skills and can be organized by one knowledgeable player who ineffective “leads” the group. Of course this excludes pugging.

EDIT- In response to your edit. The statement that your play style has no affect on me is true in a direct terms because guildwars is so instanced based. Indirectly it is not however. Do you need proof? Lets go back to ursan, it was common for ursan pugs to complete DOA in 2-2.5 hours in HM, when DOA was first completed it would often times take 4 or more hours to complete. All the GEMS from DOA were 100k + e and who knows how much the first armbrace sold for.

Once the word got out and URSAN clears of DOA the price of armbraces dropped very rapidly and have remained very depressed, even to this day. Well the obvious statement is this is great for the casual player who doesnt have the money to buy an armbrace. This is so wrong because even now armbraces are about 200k. I do not know of any casual player that will spend 200k on A single weapon, for the simple reason they only make money by playing the game.

The true reason people liked ursan and now shadowform is its "known" Most elite areas have been completed many times over using shadowform, you can easily find guides written by the so called "elistest" you talk about. The "elistest" took the time to figure out how to utilize a broken game mechanic to its fullest extend, they then shared it (thanks elitest). So now that you have an area broken down and a checklist written out on how to complete the area you can farm your heart out, but you will defend shadowform as not broken because you cannot see any other way to do your farm.

A nerf to shadowform will not affect an elitest player (or guild) because they have a deep understanding and knowledge of the game mechanics, they will rework their builds and test them over and over til they have it perfect.

I don't pve anymore so an outside perspective may be good for this thread.

Why shouldn't SF be nerfed? It is easy to just mash your face on the keyboard and complete everything with ease. Of course it should be nerfed so people actually need to try in pve again, well "kind of" try.

Missions such as FoW and UW were meant to be difficult and completing them in less than 20 minutes defeats the purpose of why they are there in the first place. I suggest they either nerf it hard or they just remove end mission chests because the reward exceeds the effort put into a speed clear.

These missions should be difficult and they are meant to take time, the whole "people can do it that don't have time" argument is completely void as a-net is not catering to these people. If you don't have time then don't enter the mission and you can do it later when you do have time. It also makes no sense when a majority of people that are doing these speed clears and abusing shadow form are not the people with little time to play but they are grinding these missions with shadow form.

A11 stop using the little time to play argument because it is a false argument.

Give it a smiters boon nerf.

Here's my opinion:

Make Shadow Form have an automatic recharge like the Avatar spells (but without any means of getting it permanent again like Avatars) and then take away or severely reduce the "lose all but X health" penalty at the end.

Are people using SF to make tanks in a game never made for tanks? To speed clear an area not meant to be fast and easy? RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO 'em. Those sorts of people shouldn't even be considered except to stop their bullshit.

Ok, all your half-baked arguments of elitism and shit aside...

why should there exist a profession-specific skill that grants maintainable invincibility?