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Originally Posted by lemming
Lingering necros and SW sins don't have interrupts.
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Petition to Demand a Response from Anet on Botting
Faer
fowlero
Latest kid on the block, aura of stability bot lol...
cosyfiep
I'm not really sure what response you are hoping to get. We already know the top 3 excu---reasons
3 yes we are banning x amount of bots everyweek (yet many still claim to know a bunch that are still there after months---)
2 its hard to tell the difference between a bot and someone with a really really quick hand and single digit fps ..
and
1 we have very limited resources left doing anything on guildwars the game that is currently live...the small team left is working hard daily to get stuff done (blogs, updating facebook pages etc)....and everyone else is working hard on gw2 (the game that is NOT live).
Are you expecting to hear a different story than those? Many of us are so jaded now from the responses we have gotten in the past, some that were totally wrong, others that were partially wrong, etc. Would we even believe them if they told us exactly what they were doing????
probably not....so I can see why we have gotten no response from them.
I would love to be proven wrong however.
3 yes we are banning x amount of bots everyweek (yet many still claim to know a bunch that are still there after months---)
2 its hard to tell the difference between a bot and someone with a really really quick hand and single digit fps ..
and
1 we have very limited resources left doing anything on guildwars the game that is currently live...the small team left is working hard daily to get stuff done (blogs, updating facebook pages etc)....and everyone else is working hard on gw2 (the game that is NOT live).
Are you expecting to hear a different story than those? Many of us are so jaded now from the responses we have gotten in the past, some that were totally wrong, others that were partially wrong, etc. Would we even believe them if they told us exactly what they were doing????
probably not....so I can see why we have gotten no response from them.
I would love to be proven wrong however.
Artisan Archer
They have found a solution, they're buffing rupts!
AtomicMew
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Originally Posted by Theocrat
Real men don't have Britney Spears songs in their forum signatures.
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Rolain
/Signed, this is getting to a ridiculous stage.
Missing HB
According to some , there's no solution against bots , so i will ask it again , why did they remove heroes from Ha/GvG ? Everyone will be at same level then if nothing can be done ...( also , to some response i saw , you can't bot in HB , because it's only 4v4 and because you need to split , using a bot in 4v4 anyway ( having 3 heroes ) will lead to a lack of damage )
AuggieClown
/Signed - Bots are the main cause because i don't go HA, RA & so on with my characters
AtomicMew
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
According to some , there's no solution against bots , so i will ask it again , why did they remove heroes from Ha/GvG ? Everyone will be at same level then if nothing can be done ...( also , to some response i saw , you can't bot in HB , because it's only 4v4 and because you need to split , using a bot in 4v4 anyway ( having 3 heroes ) will lead to a lack of damage )
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Heroes currently are nowhere NEAR as good as what bots can do. Furthermore, there are no stat differences between heroes and humans - a bot program can control each hero individually and to the exact same extent as the player character, and so playing a botter in HB would be like playing 4x bots with perfect reaction. Assuming the bot is properly programmed, you have absolutely no chance at all.
Missing HB
You probably never ever played hero battles if you think so. What would team with 4 bots ( or 3 ) lead to in HB . That's quite similar to some ppl who did run 3 eles + monk , but who lost coz opponent played on cap . At HB time , there were already many bots running out in Pve , HA RA , etc , but noone ever did there .
Anyway , HB is not the point of the topic obviously , but if you believe heroes are so good , then just try to use 1 Hero in pve ( since it's the only place where we can ) with full rupts , and check it .
Anyway , HB is not the point of the topic obviously , but if you believe heroes are so good , then just try to use 1 Hero in pve ( since it's the only place where we can ) with full rupts , and check it .
Faer
Heroes are programmed to miss. Bots aren't. Furthermore, when HB existed, the currently popular botting code was just barely public. A bot for HB (or hero use in general) would be (and is) much easier to make and get hold of these days than it would have been back then.
WEAR SOME MORE PINK WHY DON'T YOU.
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Originally Posted by trcvrs
Insecure men do believe in gender conformity.
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Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Artisan Archer
They have found a solution, they're buffing rupts!
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We should run interrupt bots to counter the interrupt bots!
Just make sure you have max fast casting, and pew pew, interrupt bot problem solved!
Jbrown
Personally I don't think doing a mass ban will solve anything at this point. So many people are botting, all a mass ban will do is destroy what players are left. Anet just needs to use this outbreak to find away to stop injecting which will destroy the problem all by itself.
Ninja Ninja
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Originally Posted by Jbrown
Personally I don't think doing a mass ban will solve anything at this point. So many people are botting, all a mass ban will do is destroy what players are left. Anet just needs to use this outbreak to find away to stop injecting which will destroy the problem all by itself.
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It won't destroy the players that are left it will purge the scum players from the game, if bots are the only players left then they should just close gw1 now.
Elnino
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Originally Posted by trcvrs
a bot program can control each hero individually and to the exact same extent as the player character
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-react to the unlimited number of possible tactics in HB?
-control all 3 heroes to react to everything your opponent does?
-deciding who should go where?
-successfully counter your opponents build/tactics?
Bots don't have human intuition; your argument is invalid
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Elnino
LOL, you seriously think a bot can:
-react to the unlimited number of possible tactics in HB? -control all 3 heroes to react to everything your opponent does? -deciding who should go where? -successfully counter your opponents build/tactics? Bots don't have human intuition; your argument is invalid |
Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Elnino
LOL, you seriously think a bot can:
-react to the unlimited number of possible tactics in HB? -control all 3 heroes to react to everything your opponent does? -deciding who should go where? -successfully counter your opponents build/tactics? Bots don't have human intuition; your argument is invalid |
It woud run either duel melt or trip packer (the easiest builds) and split counter-activly.
It would control each hero's skills as if it were a stand alone character, and it could even do as much as interrupt 3/4 sec cast time spells (on a hero) given there was no hero lagg.
With builds such as dual melts and trip packer, it rly didn't matter who you splitted for what, as all 3 packers were equal. It could simply follow the enemy player, and use skills accordingly (Spam guardian for frontline, veil/cure against hexes, etc)
I'm not going to say it would beat every single person, or that I ever saw it in action, but having heard about the plans, I could definatly see this bot linger around top 100-200 ladder, if not higher. Esp with builds such as triple packer or dual melts.
on a side note:
It would even be possible to BB/weaponswap with a hero.
Missing HB
Alright , but main problem upon those builds was the human : i mean , having 3 r/p is nice damage , but it is just useless if the controller is only here for rupting . Experienced players new how to handle that build ( or even dual melt ) , so removing the main source of damage ( a/mo , me/w ) or their healer ( mo/w most of time )will make it easier .
However , some bugs in HB ( crossing , stucks , etc.. ) could lead you to 4v4 situation , where some people would have had problems , but i still believe a rupter would be less efficient than what people used to play with those heroes. But , yes , someone using it could still grow top500.
And yes , it was possible to micro BB with a hero , by timing weapon switch with combo( i had try it ) , so i guess a bot could have run it .
However , some bugs in HB ( crossing , stucks , etc.. ) could lead you to 4v4 situation , where some people would have had problems , but i still believe a rupter would be less efficient than what people used to play with those heroes. But , yes , someone using it could still grow top500.
And yes , it was possible to micro BB with a hero , by timing weapon switch with combo( i had try it ) , so i guess a bot could have run it .
Killed u man
Yeah, but this is not a question about interrupt bots being effective in HB, it's about bots being effective in PvP.
And even if they weren't effective, it still wouldn't matter. Bots shouldn't belong in PvP.
As for you trying to push in your "Bring HB back" into every topic here on guru, I rly don't think people care all that much if HB came back. It's unrelated to this particular issue, aside from the fact that hero AI could be concidered "bots".
Btw, faced another arcane echo Pblock mesmer in HA
Pblocked the prot on his guardian (1/2 cast) and pblocked me on 1/2 cure hex, both within 2-3 seconds. A wipe was eminent
And even if they weren't effective, it still wouldn't matter. Bots shouldn't belong in PvP.
As for you trying to push in your "Bring HB back" into every topic here on guru, I rly don't think people care all that much if HB came back. It's unrelated to this particular issue, aside from the fact that hero AI could be concidered "bots".
Btw, faced another arcane echo Pblock mesmer in HA
Pblocked the prot on his guardian (1/2 cast) and pblocked me on 1/2 cure hex, both within 2-3 seconds. A wipe was eminent
Oscura_Th
/signed
And I got an idea, as far as I know, bots can't understand NPC dialogue.
So why not add a (sphinx - )NPC, which appears at random after entering a map, which asks a riddle
(having more than one riddle, of course. more like a huge amount of riddles, to stop guessing. and not very complicated ones so even 12 year old kids can solve them)
If a player doesn't answer correctly or leaves radar range, he (dies / cannot move for x min / gets DP / gets teleported to the last outpost / whatever) and gets a point. a correct answer removes a point. 10 points result in a ban.
players can either read and understand the riddle and solve it or else check the wiki.
since it randomly appears (20% chance or something) and correct answers remove points, banning not-botting players shouldn't happen too often.
and since bots do their thing all day and night long, their chance of getting caught by the sphinx is high enough.
And I got an idea, as far as I know, bots can't understand NPC dialogue.
So why not add a (sphinx - )NPC, which appears at random after entering a map, which asks a riddle
(having more than one riddle, of course. more like a huge amount of riddles, to stop guessing. and not very complicated ones so even 12 year old kids can solve them)
If a player doesn't answer correctly or leaves radar range, he (dies / cannot move for x min / gets DP / gets teleported to the last outpost / whatever) and gets a point. a correct answer removes a point. 10 points result in a ban.
players can either read and understand the riddle and solve it or else check the wiki.
since it randomly appears (20% chance or something) and correct answers remove points, banning not-botting players shouldn't happen too often.
and since bots do their thing all day and night long, their chance of getting caught by the sphinx is high enough.
oscarmk
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Originally Posted by Oscura_Th
/signed
And I got an idea, as far as I know, bots can't understand NPC dialogue. So why not add a (sphinx - )NPC, which appears at random after entering a map, which asks a riddle (having more than one riddle, of course. more like a huge amount of riddles, to stop guessing. and not very complicated ones so even 12 year old kids can solve them) If a player doesn't answer correctly or leaves radar range, he (dies / cannot move for x min / gets DP / gets teleported to the last outpost / whatever) and gets a point. a correct answer removes a point. 10 points result in a ban. players can either read and understand the riddle and solve it or else check the wiki. since it randomly appears (20% chance or something) and correct answers remove points, banning not-botting players shouldn't happen too often. and since bots do their thing all day and night long, their chance of getting caught by the sphinx is high enough. |
snaek
@hb and bots: macros and scripts (some of which may be considered "bot-like") to enhance player ability were already being used in hb before it was taken down. as well from this, many people were also running "enter" (or afk) bots--they didnt fight, rather they took advantage of /roll and red resign. not quite as good as the interrupt bots that can be seen today, but given time to develop they could have become quite powerful.
ladder and mat was a good concept for those who taken hb seriously. for those that didn't, they were able to farm commander points and zkeys through various exploits/cheats. theres a lot of fishy stuff going on in gvg with champ point farming too, but i don't think it ever got the retardness level of hb.
ladder and mat was a good concept for those who taken hb seriously. for those that didn't, they were able to farm commander points and zkeys through various exploits/cheats. theres a lot of fishy stuff going on in gvg with champ point farming too, but i don't think it ever got the retardness level of hb.
Jk)Phoenix
/signed
12chars
12chars
Fluffy Kittens
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Btw, faced another arcane echo Pblock mesmer in HA Pblocked the prot on his guardian (1/2 cast) and pblocked me on 1/2 cure hex, both within 2-3 seconds. A wipe was eminent |
Hmm.. I heard fake cast > pb mez, no matter if bot or korean micro or just a random rupt. But well... you might learn to play some day. Don't lose hope, we all believe in you!!!11
By the way trading many botter names with screen of admitting them that they use bot for my acc back! (to anet)
lishi
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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
Hmm.. I heard fake cast > pb mez, no matter if bot or korean micro or just a random rupt. But well... you might learn to play some day. Don't lose hope, we all believe in you!!!11
By the way trading many botter names with screen of admitting them that they use bot for my acc back! (to anet) |
here what could happen
You cast guardian, you cancel guardian on middle cast.
Those are the possibility :
1) The bot didn't event started to cast interupt -> you wasted 5 energy plus the guy who needed guardian is getting pwned.
2) the bot started to cast interupt but notice you cancelled he cancel too. You will get interupted your next spell, meanwhile the guy who needed guardian is getting pwned.
3) you cancelled too late, you got powerblocked. your team will likely get pwend.
4) Apparently you timed your cancel on time so that it landed exactly not only when the bot cancel but also in that small amount of time where his ping didn't allow him to cancel in time. Hurra! that is very unlikely. But notice how the guy who needed guardian still need guardian.
Now, you will say that a bot bla bla is stupid bla bla will always interrupt at same time etc.
Clearly you are more stupid then the bot, because a bot is stupid or flexible as much his programmer made him. And anyone who can code a bot, can make sure the bot randomize his interrupt moment.
Eragon Zarroc
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
....full team of HA farming bots.
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lol, whatever u say dude :-P
Vazze
woa, nice work botmakers! Haha. Other than that, dead game is dead but: hope to see this fixed in GW2.
For example get rid of the whole interrupt crap, it is stupid. Human reaction time is nowhere near lag/ping. Differences between good and bad likewise.
For example get rid of the whole interrupt crap, it is stupid. Human reaction time is nowhere near lag/ping. Differences between good and bad likewise.
Nerel
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Originally Posted by Oscura_Th
/signed
And I got an idea, as far as I know, bots can't understand NPC dialogue. So why not add a (sphinx - )NPC, which appears at random after entering a map, which asks a riddle (having more than one riddle, of course. more like a huge amount of riddles, to stop guessing. and not very complicated ones so even 12 year old kids can solve them) If a player doesn't answer correctly or leaves radar range, he (dies / cannot move for x min / gets DP / gets teleported to the last outpost / whatever) and gets a point. a correct answer removes a point. 10 points result in a ban. players can either read and understand the riddle and solve it or else check the wiki. since it randomly appears (20% chance or something) and correct answers remove points, banning not-botting players shouldn't happen too often. and since bots do their thing all day and night long, their chance of getting caught by the sphinx is high enough. |
I understand the concept of using a random question to catch bots off guard, but truly the list of random questions would need to be both astronomical in scope and plainly simple in difficulty.
A game that was actively being supported by a support team capable of devising and implementing a slew of new questions EVERY SINGLE DAY would likely be effective at catching bots, Guild Wars is not that game.
The people who create these bots adapt and overcome, a simple set of riddles/questions would be a trifling obstacle.
Mireles
I think those images of skewed random sequences of numbers and/or letters your required to enter would be more practical than riddles, many websites use this to prevent bots from registering on forums and websites to post spam.
Sarevok Thordin
/signed
I'm sick and tired of the interrupt bots in RA.
Go to hell all of you who use it.
I'm sick and tired of the interrupt bots in RA.
Go to hell all of you who use it.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc
ummm, right...
lol, whatever u say dude :-P |
As a matter of fact, there's a GvG bot project in the works now that plans on doing a 6-bot/2-man team. Basically, the 6 bots would play at the stand, and the 2-man team would run flags and gank. It's rather ambitious, and may not work, but it's got some serious support and they want it done.
If that works, it will basically be a new way to farm champ points.
Eragon Zarroc
just sounds a little far fetched...honestly...
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc
just sounds a little far fetched...honestly...
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Just trust me when I say, it looks like they're going to get it done. They've already gotten the basic coding done. It may still not happen, but there are some smart guys working on it.
Danny Used Frenzy
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Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc
just sounds a little far fetched...honestly...
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I figure if a team of bots farming GvG doesn't drag ANet out into the open on this topic, nothing will.
I think part of the problem that people don't understand with botters is that we're not dumb, farm-oriented people. And we're not closed off, either. If you know where to find us (which isn't too hard), we're very open about everything.
We don't bot around-the-clock. For the most part, we don't bot on mains. And, most importantly, the people behind the scripts are intelligent. Until ANet implements some sort of hash-checking feature, bots will just keep getting smarter and overcome anything ArenaNet throws at them.
I mean, even a hash-check would be simple to beat. Excessively simple.
I hate to say it, but unless ANet comes up with something amazing, they're better off giving Harboe his 500 euros to stop maintaining
snaek
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Originally Posted by danny used frenzy
I think part of the problem that people don't understand with botters is that we're not dumb, farm-oriented people. And we're not closed off, either. If you know where to find us (which isn't too hard), we're very open about everything.
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one of the problems is how widely distributed and how easily obtained these bots are. and of course the other side of the problem being how nothing is being done about em.
Septeric
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WOW
but true....
raskofshadows
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Originally Posted by snaek
i dont think this is the general viewpoint at all. theres a difference between people in the bot "scene" who are familiar with programming and write bots/scripts/macros, and the "mainstream" user who googles and downloads bots to use without fully understanding how they work.
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Also why has no one bothered to mention the fact that GUILDWARS IS A DEAD GAME GUILDWARS IS A DEAD GAME GUILDWARS IS A DEAD GAME.(lol?)
AtomicMew
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Originally Posted by Nerel
Yeah, this won't help at all... the bots will just be scripted to recognize and answer the 'riddles' and their ability to answer them correctly will coincide with the wiki user's ability to catalogue all the riddles...
I understand the concept of using a random question to catch bots off guard, but truly the list of random questions would need to be both astronomical in scope and plainly simple in difficulty. A game that was actively being supported by a support team capable of devising and implementing a slew of new questions EVERY SINGLE DAY would likely be effective at catching bots, Guild Wars is not that game. The people who create these bots adapt and overcome, a simple set of riddles/questions would be a trifling obstacle. |
AtomicMew
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Originally Posted by Elnino
LOL, you seriously think a bot can:
-react to the unlimited number of possible tactics in HB? -control all 3 heroes to react to everything your opponent does? -deciding who should go where? -successfully counter your opponents build/tactics? Bots don't have human intuition; your argument is invalid |
There is nothing uniquely "human" about winning at guild wars PvP. There are actually a very limited amount of character states in the game. For example: there are like ~100 skills that can knockdown, but in the end, they are all still knockdowns. In other words, you don't need to program a response to each 100 different skills. Rather, compile a list of KD skills and program a single response to KDs.
AI has come a very long way in gaming. I could cite examples, but I that argument really shouldnt have to be made. It is simply a fact that AI can (easily) be created for any number of games that would wipe the floor with its human counterparts. Furthermore, Guild Wars - it's phase-based; it has no z-axis.
From looking at existing bots, it's already clear that bots can be made by complete programming amateurs that would basically render human players obsolete. Bots can: play RA monk better than all human players (current bot is not quite there yet), interrupt perfectly, infuse perfectly, play BB sin completely autonomously. Yes, there was actually a bot for BB sins.
FoxBat
While I'm as concerned as anyone about all this bot rampage, they are not going to be able to farm champ points with AFK bots. You need to be a 1200 guild vs a 1200 guild, you won't keep your 1200 long after several losses, and you will lose to even other 1200 guildsellers that aren't running AFKbots. Some lame build that abuses bot interrupts, maybe. But full AFK teams need bad players to farm and 1200+ doesn't cut it.