Petition to Demand a Response from Anet on Botting

can you give a solid example of why someone would inject for legitimate reasons?

not trying to be a smart ass, it just seems pointless unless your trying to bot something.

KSMod injects to make everyone's armor high resolution, enhancing a person's gaming experience. does this sound like an attempt to bot? *sigh*

oh, maybe i miss understood the definition of injecting.... I thought it meant injecting data to be sent to server outside of the normal user interface. These sound like client side changes that don't require information to be sent to servers.

You guys need to stop botting. Botting is destroying our community! I used to aspire to getting obsidian armor, now ectos are impossible to farm and everything is so high priced! How can we casual players enjoy a game that's so messed up?!? plz stop botting, it's hurting us all.

Like I said, texmod discussion is off topic. ANet already has a stance on that - Use at your own risk.

And they don't mean "We might ban you for this, we might not." They're talking about risk from downloading a program off the internet that could possible steal your account info. They've overlooked the usage of texmod and KSMod for years. Until they change that position, officially, neither of these two programs belong in this thread.

Please go back and read the OP if you disagree.

You're exactly right.

how does botting affect your inability to farm ectos? it doesn't -_- botting is majorily affecting the pvp aspect of the game. not so much the pve aspect. at least that is the feeling i have gotten from this thread and people bitching about RA this, GvG that, interupts this, etc.

/signed (its all I can do, right?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware
Yeah, I'd uninstall GW if they take your recommendation. There are also valid reasons to use some of the programs that "bot" that have nothing whatsoever to do with botting, like reassigning keys, or auto-loading TexMod(oops, TexMod is evil-BANINATE). I'm not sure if mentioning names of software is permitted, even though some of them are open source and are developed for reasons having nothing to do with Guild Wars.

Around 80% of the publicly released bots are specifically intended for PvE. However, if you don't think that the in-game economy or other PvE players' choices affect you, then I guess that's fine.

You can essentially live on an island in any MMO, I guess. Just seems like a poor way to experience the game, but whatever.

what specific, dramatic effects are PvE botters having on the the uber Guild Wars Economy then?

Your right a good chunk of the bots being developed are PvE bots, but the 1's that seem to be getting the most airtime are the PvP bots. They have been around for a long time, and have just gotten popular within the last few months or so from my understanding.

PvE bots really don't affect that much, the economy is already in shambles, and if I wanted to bot my Chest Hunter or even Lucky title, how does that affect the game at all??? Your right, it doesn't. Now if I were going to bot Raptors for event drops, or even UW for ecto drops, that is a different story. But there is even a bot out there that will do full VQ's for you, does that affect you as another player? Not at all. Now explain to me how all those bots effect your playing experience. I can understand a few would, but not all.

They make title achievements for HoM for gw2 worthless which makes people want to play the right way less and join the bot wagon more.

We have no idea what the perk for a full HoM will be in GW2. Besides you only need r3 for each title to even put it in your hall, not max. You can easily get r3 by just playing the game like a normal player.

This has been the age old argument almost from Day 1 in GW really - do bots affect me in PvE?

Me, personally, I don't give a hoot as to what someone else is doing with their PvE game. Directly it doesn't affect me or anyone else. Indirectly though, yes it used to because of the economy. And "economy" is loosely used here. Because of the game-state now, it doesn't really matter tbh. You can easily see someone who has botted (Spamadan: WTS 15,000 cupcakes...) and yes they make a killing through that. But in all fairness now, does it really hurt? From a PvE perspective - no, PvE has had 'em for years.

PvP however, with xxxxx and yyyyy sites making bot code open source, is certainly now in the forefront of annoyance and I have a lot of sympathies. For one, I cannot abide PvP at all but if I was coming up against something that could in essence shut me and the team down, the yes I would be peeved as hell.

The solution(s) are there/about for ANet to decide on, I am just concerned that they have no-one with the technical skills and knowledge to design and implement such changes. As I've mentioned before, the base code for the client is over 5 years old now and probably has more holes in it than a sieve (for those who wanted to look for them of course).

And we all know what happens when they release updates - I would dread to think what would happen if they got it wrong. Hence why I've said patience on this matter. For now, people just have to deal with it.

I agree 100% with you Coverticus, PvE has no affect on how I play, and since I choose not to PvP, I could care even less about the bots there. I spend much of my time dual accounting most of what I do, with a bunch of guild/alliance runs mixed in to my playing time. If someone wants to bot their gladiator title/champ/Hero title, I could care less. If I have someone who writes a bot that can run me through missions, hey good job. But for me, botting has no affect on my play style/anything I do.

Since when does that make it right and you have no idea if it will be individual rewards for the pvp titles. But for the second lets put HoM aside, the pvp bots prevent actually game play in the pvp areas because with the bots your forced to encounter them and the bots give them above human reflexes.
BTW you need r8 hero title for HoM.

Play pvp enough that you can can ranks during the times that you do not encounter shut-down bots ;-) it is helping you by allowing you to have more of a challenge and more playing time toward your goal? lol

Just because they react faster, and can actually see the skills getting cash the split second they start getting cast and react to it, doesn't mean they are preventing game play. You can still play in HA or GvG correct? So it isn't preventing gameplay by definition, it is just making it a bit more difficult.

Your right I have no idea what the rewards will be in GW2, do you? All I know is what they have said, and whatever the reward will be for PvP, then hey I will be missing out on it. But w/e, not a big deal in my eyes. I don't live and breathe this game like so many others, I am a casual player who likes to have fun, and work on my GWAMM's.

And thanks for that bit of knowledge, I had no idea it was r8.

If this is something that really doesn't affect you then why are you complaining against a fix that will improve and set game play right for the pvp population that your not a part of?

To add to this, there are even some botters filling HoMs on accounts and selling them. I know of a few people specifically who have over 100 accounts between them with full HoMs because of botting.

They plan on selling them for around $800-$1,000 each when GW2 comes out.

Where did I ever say I am against fixing PvP botting? He said he was Peeved as hell, I have friend who PvP and don't like it, but like the satisfaction of beating a HA bot team.

I never said I was against or for, I have said I'm neutral on the matter as it does not affect me. Last I checked, I was allowed to express my opinion.

ANet seems to dislike RMT. I wonder if more actions of this sort would provoke a response. Frankly, I'd be surprised if the folks who use bots did not also consider the possibility of cash profits.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs of all botter actions. From being able to list off all existing bots to "knowing people" planning on seling accounts with full monuments.

How do we know that you are not a botter in disguise?!?!?!?!

Farming bots do effect the economy on the principle of supply and demand... Bots create more supply in essence making things cheaper... but on the flip side it farming is like the minimum wage job of guild wars... by making things cheaper you get less return for your "labor"...

As for title bots like luck/unlucky.. not so much effect.. it actually costs gold to use these... only effect i see here is the legitimacy of the accomplishment.

PvP bots... well pvp game-play was already at a breaking point in the first place.. I tried to enter pvp for the first time recently and when i heard of this problem i decided now probably wasn't the best time if ever...

either way, botting is wrong... its against the written rules everyone agreed with when they created their account.

Arena net if you don't hold up your end of the deal what was the point making EULA...?

Rules are meaningless with no enforcement.

If your not going to address this issue after the problem has become widespread at-least tell us this.

Why should we expect anything different in GW2 if you wont for fill your obligation to the EULA and players that follow it now?

Your just grasping straws now, I have the privilege of entering a pvp area where I will always be at a serious disadvantage due to opponents using cheating programs that will give them the ability to instantly react, instant healing, and constant blind.

I happen to know that we are getting rewards, what the rewards are I don't care but those are rewards that don't need to be exploited.
That's your choice to miss out on it and the HoM was created to reward players in all aspects of the game whatever play style that player preferred, getting it all is just a choice made by more dedicated players or people that just like all of it.

That's why I think an injection detector is a bad idea. It will either:

- Dish out tons of undeserved suspensions if it's a simple, automatic detector
- Clutter up support and management, who will have to discern situations and then handle suspensions manually

Stop allowing injection completely, so that neither bots nor mods like KSMod work. If that's the toll to pay, well, fine then. But just don't implement a secret detector and then ban accounts for injection itself, or half the current playerbase is screwed without even botting.

Last I checked I wasn't grasping straws. Just because you don't use a bot doesn't put you at a disadvantage. It should be making you better as a player, and learning to exploit the weaknesses of the bot. If I could link you to the website where it is being downloaded from, you would see where the bot fails at doing certain things, and take advantage of it.

The bot can only do what it is programmed to do, last I checked every spike in PvP, and every tactic wasn't the same. The bot simply redbars and prots. If you can't out think it, then there is a different problem all its own.

They'll just wait for the a new bot that gets around that. The point is to ban the current bots to get rid of anything they obtained through botting and anet sending a message they don't tolerate botting.
The pvp bots are actually players so if they know its coming they will wait.

Exactly, the bots just mean you have to be leeter than them. Do you have what it takes?! O_o

Man vs Machine, who will win in the ultimate showdown?!?!?! *grabs some popcorn*

OMG news flash the people that run pvp bots are players at there keyboard so they can counter anything and have the reflex of a ninja using there botting program whenever they choose to turn it on.

If you're going to try to sound smart, at least do some basic research on what you're talking about.

While I can agree that HoM could be botted in full, I doubt this claim is true. For starters, we don't even know what rewards will be given out.
Secondly, the market itself is not to obvious. Think about this:

Who is going to buy those acounts? People who dont have a HoM themselves.
Who doesn't have a HoM? People who don't play GW, or who can't be asked playing it for titles.
Who will the targetted sales population be?

People who never played GW before (And hence you won't have any way to get into contact with them) and people who couldn't be asked PvE'ing in the first place (and therefore clearly aren't interested in HoM).

All in all, I don't think you'dd sell many acount. And all this is ignoring the fact that the email will probably be bound to playNC which will have to be bound to the same email in GW2.

Seems like a terrible idea to stock up on HoM, especially so early in GW2 production, when nothing HoM related is released yet.

K, let me tell you a little story.

Last night a pvp guild that is good enough to get a silver trim, be top 50 on the gvg ladder, and where most of the players are r10+ fought a little group on burial mounds in Heroes Ascent late last night on double fame weekend. This little group was full of wee little pve'ers and botters that were mostly under r6. It was a balanced (which means mostly casters) vs a team with 2 mesmer interrupt bots that had a total of 13 interrupts between them, one of them even took channeling so he wouldn't run out of energy as his bot was spamming his interrupts though out the night.

Now, even though the gvg guild was rank 50, and the botters knew they were going to be on observation mode, they still engaged in battle. Why? Probably cause they knew they weren't going to get banned.

Sorry, back to the story.

Now, the 2 teams fought, but almost to no avail. All through out the night all you could hear was *click* *click* *click* *click* as the bots interrupted everything on the gvg teams bars. Alas, the gvg team got a kill, but it did not matter as the bots kept interrupting everything and eventually the pve'ers got some kills. It turns out only being able to get Patient Spirit and Life Sheath makes it hard to stay alive. Now as minute after minute went past, the gvgers kept dying and things were looking grim. Could it be, pve'ers were going to beat a guild that would destroy them if they didn't have these programs? No. The gvgers used the last bit of there strength and knowledge to ball them up into a choke point and with all there strength, they were able to get a single Savannah Heat off while the warrior got a Earth Shaker off.

BOOM?!

Bot down

BOOM?!

Another Bot down.

Monk down, prot down, bot down again!

The brave gvg'ers were finally able to overcome the cowarderly pve'ers who hid behind there bots for so long.

The End.

Now, if you want to look at it as a way for pve'ers to easily farm teams and rank up, then fine, destroy the game and anything honorable that was left in it.

But, if you are smart, you should see it as how a strong guild had to overcome a terribly weak one in a fight that should have lasted no more than 2 minutes, but almost went 9, and even then, the gvg guild almost lost if it wasn't for 1 lucky skill getting off.

And to the guy I quoted. Its not the monk bots and anti bullz bots that are killing the game. Its this shitters that think they can run 2 mesmer bots on obs mode with 13 interrupts between the two and get away with it.

PS: Sarah, if you look at this, You and THCx should be ashamed for running that shit. I had alot more respect for you guys before that.

Lol what research into botting? Why should I? I already know about them, and seen them run on others accounts.

They do react faster then you, and there is even a program that will allow you to see what skills the other team is using and even their party composition. I bet you would love to get your hands on it. It's only gonna cost you 17,50 €.

I have done my research, maybe you should do your own.

el-oh-frickin'-el, people selling simple cosmetic bonuses in GW2 for over ten times the price of the actual game. Going to be pretty sad if some poor saps actually end up buying those things.

Could the price be an indicator of how many accounts they have to go through to farm one up to a full HoM before one of them manages to escape a ban?

Using bots does put you at a direct advantage. A stupidly huge one, at that. There's no reason to believe it wouldn't.

It doesn't make me a better player to be trying to outplay a bot, in this scenario. And I shouldn't be "learning to exploit the weakness" of the bots, because the bots shouldn't even exist in the first place. I shouldn't have it be my goal to surpass an opponent that is supposed to have no place in the game.

That's why a lot of the players who are using the bots are starting to play with them when they'll be useful and turn them off when something needs done that they can't do. They get all of the positive effects that the program brings and shave off its inadequacies.

Well,

Chess would still be playable by definition if white always played with the handicap of a queen. Or, for another example, every member of one team in a match of CS is aimbotting and wallhacking.

In either case, would the game still be either fair or fun? Given teams of comparable skill, they'd be gamebreaking advantages.

its funny how all these textmod ks mod or whatever shit mod users are trying to argue for using that as a defense to not implementing a dll injection detector.

Even if a-net said they allow it officially its because of too many people using it, in reality they dont want any injections into their game.

you want to enhance your graphics or cut corners with titles instead of realizing the bigger situation that bots have ruined the game

Not one backup to your claim of these advanced programs other than "pay some money to find out".

Hahahahhaha!

TexMod is the only program I know of that doesn't modify the game files at all. I've tested it in various games, running another texture ripper on top of a mod running from texmod, and the regular textures from the games I've tested it with were ripped by the ripper despite the TexMod'd textures running. This is because TexMod runs in Memory in Direct X above Guild Wars (or other games) and therefore is not like a DLL injector or bot AND permanently undetectable.

I'm not quite sure, are you questioning the existence of ruptbots/enemy party window?

If so that's pretty dumb. The smallest effort on a google search will show you their existence...

What kind of retard is going to spend a thousand bucks in something they just bought (GW 2). Still I think they can fetch 150 so x 100 that's 15,000 right there, I can see what they do it now, well that is minus the multiple fried video cards/comp use etc, but I guess that's minimal compared to that profit.

Anyway A.net really needs to implement something like punkbuster or a warden that is actually activated daily and not once every blue moon.