Petition to Demand a Response from Anet on Botting - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

R_Frost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

Me/

17 May 2010 at 22:10 - 561

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

If this is something that really doesn't affect you then why are you complaining against a fix that will improve and set game play right for the pvp population that your not a part of?

its does affect everyone in a way. there has been skill updates and enemy updates in the past to combat the botters. in theory, yeah what botters do really shouldnt affect anyone that mainly does PvE, being an instanced world, but once Anet starts changing stuff trying to make it harder for the botters to do what they do then it affects everyone in one way or another.

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

17 May 2010 at 22:11 - 562

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

I'm not quite sure, are you questioning the existence of ruptbots/enemy party window?

If so that's pretty dumb. The smallest effort on a google search will show you their existence...

No. I simply do not care about them.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

17 May 2010 at 22:17 - 563

I really hope ANet ignores the suggestion(s) in this thread to install spyware to address the problem.

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

17 May 2010 at 22:19 - 564

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

I really hope ANet ignores the suggestion(s) in this thread to install spyware to address the problem.

They listen to absolutely 0.00% of the suggestions from this site anyway (Thank God), so I think you got your wish already.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

17 May 2010 at 22:22 - 565

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

el-oh-frickin'-el, people selling simple cosmetic bonuses in GW2 for over ten times the price of the actual game. Going to be pretty sad if some poor saps actually end up buying those things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmk

What kind of retard is going to spend a thousand bucks in something they just bought (GW 2). Still I think they can fetch 150 so x 100 that's 15,000 right there, I can see what they do it now, well that is minus the multiple fried video cards/comp use etc, but I guess that's minimal compared to that profit.

I remember hearing something a long time ago about WoW mounts going for $1000, so look based rewards in a next gen game wouldn't be very different.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

17 May 2010 at 22:25 - 566

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

They listen to absolutely 0.00% of the suggestions from this site anyway (Thank God), so I think you got your wish already.

upier's suggested changes to the mesmer profession are being added to the game and I know I saw the SF change suggested by a guru member, can't find where though...

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

17 May 2010 at 22:32 - 567

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

upier's suggested changes to the mesmer profession are being added to the game and I know I saw the SF change suggested by a guru member, can't find where though...

Members of the Test Krewe sign legal documents allowing ANet to accept suggestions. Some of the members of the TK are also members here. In addition, the feedback section of the wiki may also contain duplicate suggestions to anything posted here, but I can't be bothered to look. Copyright or other legal issues I don't care about are the reasons ANet no longer allow developers to view suggestions here, I believe. They are only officially allowed to take suggestions at the feedback space of the wiki from what I understand.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

17 May 2010 at 22:38 - 568

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Members of the Test Krewe sign legal documents allowing ANet to accept suggestions. Some of the members of the TK are also members here. In addition, the feedback section of the wiki may also contain duplicate suggestions to anything posted here, but I can't be bothered to look. Copyright or other legal issues I don't care about are the reasons ANet no longer allow developers to view suggestions here, I believe. They are only officially allowed to take suggestions at the feedback space of the wiki from what I understand.

upier told me he wasn't on the test krewe though.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...0434816p2.html

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

18 May 2010 at 00:27 - 569

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

its funny how all these textmod ks mod or whatever shit mod users are trying to argue for using that as a defense to not implementing a dll injection detector.

You didn't get my point. I'm not against countermeasures to injection.

I'm all for preventing injection if that's enough to stop the majority of bots, I'm just questioning the "secret implementation" of a detector you were suggesting. KSMod was just an example: KSMod is no bot, KSMod is no malicious software, yet a KSMod user would run into the detector and probably get banned if implemented with no advanced notice. Yet any forewarning would alert botters. Well, I say... Who cares? It would still hinder bots in a way or another...

This is why a detector should have been clearly implemented since the start and makes no sense now: injection shouldn't be "detected", detected injection isn't enough to spot a botter or an hacker. Injection should then be voided completely, so that neither KSMod (tolerated and not malicious, definitely not impacting on the game in any way) or any illegittimate bot relying on injection works at all.

Problem is, client-side injection is almost unavoidable (and not easily detectable), so, if they'll ever implement a detector, it'd better have a white list of exceptions, otherwise, watch most of the playerbase get banned along with those bots, while botters find some better way to hack the game...

Quite frankly, after my experience with the automated suspensions for payment fraud - dished out in errors in multiple occasions - , I wouldn't like any more computerized detectors or potentially faulty checkpoints along the line, so do it right or don't do it at all.

Danny Used Frenzy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2009

Iowa City, IA

Mo/

18 May 2010 at 06:14 - 570

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmk

What kind of retard is going to spend a thousand bucks in something they just bought (GW 2). Still I think they can fetch 150 so x 100 that's 15,000 right there, I can see what they do it now, well that is minus the multiple fried video cards/comp use etc, but I guess that's minimal compared to that profit.

Anyway A.net really needs to implement something like punkbuster or a warden that is actually activated daily and not once every blue moon.

Actually, thanks to the ability to disable the graphics engine, you can run over 15 guild wars instances on even mid-range pc's pretty easily.

A 3.2 Intel Dual Core with an nVidia 9800 GTX should be able to handle well over 40 if my computer is any sort of example. (Although, I do have an Intel Extreme board that might help out a bit.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

I really hope ANet ignores the suggestion(s) in this thread to install spyware to address the problem.

So do I. It wouldn't solve the botting issue at all. Might put off botters for a couple weeks, but it would be by no means a solution.

ightgg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Rt/

18 May 2010 at 09:59 - 571

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

You didn't get my point. I'm not against countermeasures to injection.

I'm all for preventing injection if that's enough to stop the majority of bots, I'm just questioning the "secret implementation" of a detector you were suggesting. KSMod was just an example: KSMod is no bot, KSMod is no malicious software, yet a KSMod user would run into the detector and probably get banned if implemented with no advanced notice. Yet any forewarning would alert botters. Well, I say... Who cares? It would still hinder bots in a way or another...

This is why a detector should have been clearly implemented since the start and makes no sense now: injection shouldn't be "detected", detected injection isn't enough to spot a botter or an hacker. Injection should then be voided completely, so that neither KSMod (tolerated and not malicious, definitely not impacting on the game in any way) or any illegittimate bot relying on injection works at all.

Problem is, client-side injection is almost unavoidable (and not easily detectable), so, if they'll ever implement a detector, it'd better have a white list of exceptions, otherwise, watch most of the playerbase get banned along with those bots, while botters find some better way to hack the game...

Quite frankly, after my experience with the automated suspensions for payment fraud - dished out in errors in multiple occasions - , I wouldn't like any more computerized detectors or potentially faulty checkpoints along the line, so do it right or don't do it at all.

Quite tired of Anets automated cruise control. Banning instantly would be pointless your right, and bots would overcome it. Right again. But the fact is the bots could be easily stopped without fancy programming. A bot runs on the theory that it manipulates a human action with 100% success rate. Cool that seems simple enough to hinder. Give guildwars players only a certain space of playable data. Like for instance, one person has 10k ping and 10fps while another has 20 ping and 130fps. Limit it to a consistant 30fps and 250ping. As far as im aware its measure how fast it can read and receive client side information. A bot would have more trouble manipulating a system that didnt allow the injection enough "space" to work properly. This is just a third party view and in no way has been researched but i find its easier to control inmates when they are already within the prison walls :P

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

18 May 2010 at 10:54 - 572

Lol, you can't just give everyone equal fps and ping. FPS depends in YOUR PC, and ping depends on YOUR connection to the server.

On top of that, even if you manage to give everyone the same ping (and for arguements same fps aswell), a human simply won't be able to beat a bot's reflexes.

What we can do in 250-300 ms, maybe <250 for the gifted players, a bot can do in exactly 1ms.

This is solely for interrupting. We're not talking about weapon swapping, infusing/protting etc. bots.

oscarmk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

18 May 2010 at 13:34 - 573

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Used Frenzy

So do I. It wouldn't solve the botting issue at all. Might put off botters for a couple weeks, but it would be by no means a solution.

It is actually the only solution right now, the other solutions require a new game architecture, and actually yes it can work 100%, given the list on the program is updated often.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

18 May 2010 at 14:03 - 574

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

You seem to be quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs of all botter actions. From being able to list off all existing bots to "knowing people" planning on seling accounts with full monuments.

How do we know that you are not a botter in disguise?!?!?!?!

Awww, you're cute. No, I don't bot. I just happen to know varied people in-game and on gaming sites and I try to keep up with what's going on. Currently, botting is going on, so I try to stay aware of what's happening.

I've also known the skill update notes for almost a month and knew about the costumes before they were announced. That doesn't mean I'm on the TK or work for Anet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

It's only gonna cost you 17,50 €.

You, sir, are an idiot. Why would people pay for something that you can download for free? Hell, it's even open source. Zzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

el-oh-frickin'-el, people selling simple cosmetic bonuses in GW2 for over ten times the price of the actual game. Going to be pretty sad if some poor saps actually end up buying those things.

Could the price be an indicator of how many accounts they have to go through to farm one up to a full HoM before one of them manages to escape a ban?

Have you ever seen how much the collector's edition of Prophecies or a Divine Aura game code sell for? I've never seen a new one go for less than $500. For example, here's the cost of a used one on eBay and the prices of new/used ones on Amazon. Even if the rewards are purely cosmetic, players will still pay a ton for the prestige of them.

And I doubt the price is affected by bans.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

18 May 2010 at 14:11 - 575

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

This is why a detector should have been clearly implemented since the start ... Injection should then be voided completely ...

The attempt would be futile, bad guys would still be able to get around it. You can not hope to control every machine your software is going to run on, specifically if the dark side is making even a little effort to avoid detection.

Quote:

... so, if they'll ever implement a detector, it'd better have a white list of exceptions

As usual the good guys would suffer from such counter measures - and autobanning would be the stupidest thing they can do. I can already see bans for people after updating their AntiVirus, Netsecurity or Rootkit-Revealers.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

18 May 2010 at 15:05 - 576

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Have you ever seen how much the collector's edition of Prophecies or a Divine Aura game code sell for?

The difference is that you won't find the Collector's Edition boxes for sale by manufacturers anymore, and the GW trilogy still is, though the farming up of rewards takes time. The example would have more relevance if we knew that ANet was going to stop selling keys to GW.

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

18 May 2010 at 15:06 - 577

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Awww, you're cute.

Why thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Have you ever seen how much the collector's edition of Prophecies or a Divine Aura game code sell for? I've never seen a new one go for less than $500. For example, here's the cost of a used one on eBay and the prices of new/used ones on Amazon. Even if the rewards are purely cosmetic, players will still pay a ton for the prestige of them.

That's completely different though. lol.

1)You can go and work for the cosmetic rewards that will be available in GW2 if you really want them. I can't go out and grind alot until i get collector's edition emote glow.

2) Proph collectors edition is extremely limited. Only few exist anymore and you rarely see people with it in-game anymore. Many people who have it prolly don't play too much anymore. As for GW2 cosmetics you get from HoM, a SHIT TON of people will have them (at least relative to proph collectors). They will not be special enough to warrant paying so much money for when thousands of other people will already have it, lol.

anyways, going a little of topic. ;-)

BOTTERS ARE IDIOTS! THEY RUIN THE GAME! etc, etc.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

18 May 2010 at 15:19 - 578

Time has value, people. It's the world's true non-renewable resource.

There's no way the quoted prices for botted titles will fly. Unless ANet does something soon, botted GWAMMs and PvP ranks will be oversupplied relative to demand. That will set off a race to the bottom in pricing.

Remember, the valuea of most scarce in-game shinies are set by people that are way out in the tail of the distribution along three dimensions: they have IRL cash to burn, are short on time and value in-game shinies enough to spend money on them. True luxuries like rare minis and the Prophecies Collector's Edition are expensive because they are now extremely rare (low supply) and therefore coveted by a sufficient number of those players with high capacity and willingness to pay (high demand).

Besides, a lot of the people that wanted C3/R9 paid for those titles on their own accounts long ago.

Dre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Belgium

Dutch Doom Brigade

W/

18 May 2010 at 16:12 - 579

/signed

121212121212

fowlero

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

England, UK

We Are The One And Only [rR]

18 May 2010 at 16:20 - 580

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

You, sir, are an idiot. Why would people pay for something that you can download for free? Hell, it's even open source. Zzz

Not all the scripts are given out free. For instance the protbot is now only out there because Amd posted it, he originally paid 20 euro for it.

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

18 May 2010 at 16:51 - 581

Would you guys stop discussing actual botting and stick to complaining about their existence.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

18 May 2010 at 16:58 - 582

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

Not all the scripts are given out free. For instance the protbot is now only out there because Amd posted it, he originally paid 20 euro for it.

The specific bot he mentioned has always been free, or at least it has been free for quite a while (around a year).

Oh, look....this thread is 30 pages now.....still no reply? Wow, I'm shocked

Move Down

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

W/Mo

18 May 2010 at 17:08 - 583

I hope bots kill the game now after what NCsoft did to me.
Banning me for botting while i didnt run a bot.
If anyone has a bot for me send it then please then i can try it i dont care if my other accounts get banned now anymore.
I just want to see if they can detect a bot because and i serious doubt that.

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

18 May 2010 at 17:52 - 584

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Oh, look....this thread is 30 pages now.....still no reply? Wow, I'm shocked

lol, we are just a bunch of scrubs bickering back and forth about botting ;-) it's not exactly 30 pages of signed petitions. more like 5 pages of petitions, 10 pages of botting discussion, 15 pages of off-topic. lolololol

Scarlett Romanov

Guest

Join Date: Jul 2005

Me/

18 May 2010 at 18:03 - 585

Quote:

Originally Posted by Move Down

I just want to see if they can detect a bot because and i serious doubt that.

I'm starting to wonder about their bot detection methods too.

1. We know in-game reports go to limbo.
2. Manual website reports don't seem to get checked because those leechers, bots are always still there after the report.
3. There are droves of bots in places like ZoS/Bergen. Apparently some of them have been doing it long enough to achieve oracle of wisdom. -_- If there was somethign in place "checking" them they'd clearly be marked as bots.

merek

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

18 May 2010 at 18:08 - 586

Originally Posted by Gaile:
"Botter, eh? We love nailing botters. I know some people get one a high horse and say that we don't do anything about botters. But I see the reports and I know that we do. And players who are paying attention see "I was banned" threads every day on the fansite forums, leading them to realize "Yes, ArenaNet really is monitoring, researching, asking questions, taking extra looks, and terminating the accounts of those who cheat, exploit, and otherwise abuse the UA. I guess time will tell if this wrong-doer will be nabbed. Maybe it's not if. Maybe it's when. Personally, as a team member and as a player, I'm crossin' my fingers."

"But I see the reports and I know that we do." Why not make those reports public so we can all see what A-net is doing about this issue? That way everyone can see and judge A-net with facts not just speculation.

Septeric

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2010

TRS-80 land or Colorado... depends on the weather.

House of Septeric

18 May 2010 at 18:19 - 587

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile:
"Botter, eh? We love nailing botters. I know some people get one a high horse and say that we don't do anything about botters. But I see the reports and I know that we do. And players who are paying attention see "I was banned" threads every day on the fansite forums, leading them to realize "Yes, ArenaNet really is monitoring, researching, asking questions, taking extra looks, and terminating the accounts of those who cheat, exploit, and otherwise abuse the UA." I guess time will tell if this wrong-doer will be nabbed. Maybe it's not if. Maybe it's when. Personally, as a team member and as a player, I'm crossin' my fingers."

translation = blah blah blah nada nada nada... but we're watching you whiners...

lolz.. had to chime back in after seeing that.

let me get my ladder out since my horse is so high....

and to answer others based off my personal experience: its not hard to find bots.. nor is the risk of getting caught very high. but it does get boring after a minute.

its like putting a bandaid on a gushing wound.. bottin just makes people feel better after they way they was treated.. but its temporary... the broken game that was fun and is no more, is the problem.

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

18 May 2010 at 18:20 - 588

Quote:

Originally Posted by merek

"But I see the reports and I know that we do." Why not make those reports public so we can all see what A-net is doing about this issue? That way everyone can see and judge A-net with facts not just speculation.

will never happen. would lead to harrassment of the people whose names are revealed.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

18 May 2010 at 18:22 - 589

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

will never happen. would lead to harrassment of the people whose names are revealed.

And the fact that Anet doesn't ban nearly as many bots as they claim. Gaile once claimed that they banned over 1,000 in a weekend.

We all know that's bullshit.

Oblivious Moose

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Sinister Swarm [Sin]

P/

18 May 2010 at 18:39 - 590

/sign i cannot stress the affect of third party programs, esp automated gaming ones, have on a game and its community of honest players.

used to love how this wasnt an issue, and accounts were being banned left and right last year and before.

maybe the person doing this lost their job? no idea. but still, there is no excuse to let these things go rampant

merek

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

18 May 2010 at 18:57 - 591

Eragon:
"will never happen. would lead to harrassment of the people whose names are revealed."
Do you mean the release of their real name? I don't care what their real names are.. and I doubt it would lead to harassment.. or do you mean their in-game name? lol, I don't think you can harass banned people very easy.

Danny Used Frenzy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2009

Iowa City, IA

Mo/

18 May 2010 at 19:34 - 592

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmk

It is actually the only solution right now, the other solutions require a new game architecture, and actually yes it can work 100%, given the list on the program is updated often.

It's not very hard to emulate a list of processes.

Danny Used Frenzy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2009

Iowa City, IA

Mo/

18 May 2010 at 19:35 - 593

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

And the fact that Anet doesn't ban nearly as many bots as they claim. Gaile once claimed that they banned over 1,000 in a weekend.

We all know that's bullshit.

I wouldn't doubt that number. It's not very hard to sit in Bergen and ban any monk that runs toward the signpost.

oscarmk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

18 May 2010 at 19:39 - 594

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Used Frenzy

It's not very hard to emulate a list of processes.

That wouldn't work. Think about it.

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

18 May 2010 at 19:50 - 595

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Used Frenzy

I wouldn't doubt that number. It's not very hard to sit in Bergen and ban any monk that runs toward the signpost.

Clearly they don't, since they keep doing it.

Schnellburg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

America -5 GMT

Me/

18 May 2010 at 21:07 - 596

Let them keep botting. The Chinese gold farmers need to make money to feed their families, so why do you want to stop their way of life??? What is wrong with you people!?

Serious note, botting will always exist. There is really nothing that any of us can do about it. It took them how long to rework SF, and how long to rework Ursan...Yeah I bet botting is high on their list of things to do in game. I would rather them work on GW2, then worry about this dying game.

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

18 May 2010 at 21:15 - 597

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Let them keep botting. The Chinese gold farmers need to make money to feed their families, so why do you want to stop their way of life??? What is wrong with you people!?

Serious note, botting will always exist. There is really nothing that any of us can do about it. It took them how long to rework SF, and how long to rework Ursan...Yeah I bet botting is high on their list of things to do in game. I would rather them work on GW2, then worry about this dying game.

The best part about the SF is, that while they did kill 10 minute UWSC, they simultaneously made it even EASIER to farm with SF. Talk about lolols.

BuD

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Nunya

E/Mo

18 May 2010 at 22:06 - 598

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Yes, ArenaNet really is monitoring, researching, asking questions, taking extra looks....

Ah I see more clearly now, this is why there are so many wrongly banned accounts, cuz they monitor, research, ask questions & take extra looks...[/sarcasm]

R_Frost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

Me/

18 May 2010 at 23:01 - 599

i know of 2 people, one who was wrongly accused of being a bot because he just farmed alot that led to an account perma ban. he later bought another account, most of the people in the alliance helped him resupply but doesnt play much anymore. the second person actually did bot his final titles, kurzick and luxon before the HFFF was nerfed, that once he finished now logs in about once a month or event weekends now.

i agree PvP bots need to be delt with. i have mixed feelings about PvE bots as they really dont affect anyone else in PvE like it does in PvP. with the current state of the game i would rather see Anet use what little resources and actually fix stuff instead of the usuall way they deal with game issues.

LowOiL

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

America

Private

Mo/R

19 May 2010 at 00:52 - 600

Just an old fellow here that likes to play GWs to relax, have logged in about 7k hours and just now have finally got 25 titles maxed. I hoped to get GWAMM eventually and I am close to level 11 Kurz now (all just HH vanquishes)... I am sorta a loner and don't really do guild thing alot, but I do take pride in the accomplishments I have managed. All PvE and I don't even have a clue how to PvP.

/SIGNED

Please Anet do your best to stop the bots. I worked hard for what titles I have, please don't let cheaters devalue my accomplishments.