Chapter 2 Information from Computer Gaming World

Pevil Lihatuh

Pevil Lihatuh

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Yorkshire, UK

R/Me

actually UO has expansions too, as well as the monthly fee. I think their point was you can pay £60/$100 a year for 2 expansions, or you can pay 12 x £10/dunno $ equivalent to play WoW/UO/EQ/Whatever. It actually works out at half price

anyway, looking forward to this. I'll buy one edition (probably CE if it comes out, since i never got CE for the first), then i'll get another one once I feel the need to get my 2nd account in on chapter 2 (so probably about 2 days after )

Rit/R is looking like it could be fun... or Rit/N, or even Rit/Mo... hell Rit anything sounds fun! lol. Assassin sounds cool too, though whether I'll bother with that as much.. A/W could be funky. Adrenaline + Dual Wield + Teleport...

Dammit I'm gonna need to change my secondary professions a lot... hehe

UrikoBB3

UrikoBB3

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Middlesbrough, UK

Envoys of the Phoenix

N/Me

Wow, some nice details there, thanks for the information. Got a little to say about this so far:

1) Ritualist and Assassin both sound very intriguing, (though horribly similar to Diablo 2's Expansion Pack :P ). Also, very grateful for more character space.

2) New skills is always nice (I know my brother wouldn't mind more Fire Magic Elites!)

3) The new continent... sounds nice and all, (sorry if I missed this), but I'm gathering it will start with low level missions after the tutorial. Hopefully there's a high-level path through too, since I don't wanna be trailing though level 5 missions with a Lv20 Necro.

4) The factions idea is kinda confusing me a bit. Does this mainly apply to Arena fighting, and if not, how will rival factions pit against each other?

5) Higher level cap would have been nice- the Doppleganger gives so much EXP that you hit Lv20 really fast. I know GW wasn't designed for grinding, but a slightly higher Lv cap would have been nice for me. Nevermind though.

6) Loving the sound of the new Necro minion, leaving a corpse is great for me.

7) More hard enemies! =D

Overall, really looking forward to this, definate purchase when it's released.
*pushes aside want for FFXII*

Phades

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatarsince there will be (probably) a large number of people that like PVE and dont touch PVP at all there may be a *neutral* faction for a better word where you do not appear as (red) hostile and cannot be attacked by any other player.

also stated in the article.
[B
We`ve [now] seen that many players want to continue to focus exclusively on role-playing content.

The solution: Guild Wars : factions*
[/B]

i dont know the details but those statements look promising for PVE only people
I have no clue as to why people think they will be fighting inside towns, when skills are disabled. I have no clue as to why people are thinking they will be ganked outside of town due to the non-persisting world nature of the game. I have no clue as to why people who play pve are so adverse to sprinkles of pvp here and there similar to the pre-searing combat. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
I didnt say chapter 2, I said if their statement about having a chapter come out every 6 months is true, then your really not saving much money then over playing other games. Which isn't really bad - but people make out like playing Guild Wars is free.

Also only Everquest was really into Expansions - it isn't an every MMO thing. And those expansions were soooo inexpensive they can hardly be factored in (they were like $20 at my store upon release, and within months you could buy the game and they'd include 4-5 of the expansions lol).
Well considering Chapter 2 is already behind the "one chapter every 6 months" schedule, GW is still cheaper than any MMO out there. And do you honestly think they can really pull off a chapter every 6 months? I wish it were so, but I highly doubt it.

And 20 bucks per expansion and a monthly fee for the other MMO's is still more than what we're playing for GW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
I have no clue as to why people think they will be fighting inside towns, when skills are disabled. I have no clue as to why people are thinking they will be ganked outside of town due to the non-persisting world nature of the game. I have no clue as to why people who play pve are so adverse to sprinkles of pvp here and there similar to the pre-searing combat. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
Annoying isnt it? Mention any PvP aspect in their game and people start going nuts and making wild untrue speculations. Get a grip people.

Eleazar

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by skretth
after checking out any local stores and not being able to get a copy (from australia) i went hnting online

found this store sells it for 7.99

however the cover is completly different
http://www.zinio.com/issue?is=116422167&ns=zno

is it the same magazine?
or are their diff versions?
Thats the Jan edition. The GW Feature is in the Feb edition which people who have subscribed have received.

BigTru

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Actually, the magazine lists even more skills than what was originally posted. There is also a 25e, 3c, 15r minion spell. You create a vampiric bone minion that, when it hits something, gives life to you equivelent to the damage it dealt.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

[that is the queation and as a stand alone game only 2 professions would be very slim plus it has (probably) a few months to go before release i dont think they have given us all the professions that will be in it.]

That's just the 2 NEW professions, do you really think they wouldn't add the other professions from the 1st chapter to be played in the pre game as well? People will just have an option now, to start in presear and only have the first professions or start in the 2nd chapter and play all the professions.

Glad to see the separation myself, but, this being able to change 2ndary professions in Canthra I hope it's harder than just going to a city. Should have to quest for it and should be after completing the story and no running through the content.

Andi DeMorte

Andi DeMorte

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/N

Soooo not excited about GW2. Why? It is not RPG. It’s sold as an RPG but really there is no RP. I have never seen a person in a town or been in a group of players that has been IC... everything is OOC. I purchased GW with the intention of actually RPing.... Maybe I am just to hardcore DnD... Maybe I’m just gullible on the loose interpretation of RP... I dunno... ya’ll are good at calling names so go for it.

I hate the lvl cap... I would like to see the lvl cap lifted to gain a few more lvls. Better solution would have been to make lvling harder and not required to be lvl 20 before the last 2 stages of the game. I know it’s been a while since I did my doppelganger but I’m fairly sure that you had to be lvl 20 to do that. The game is now stagnant for me. The new area & quests are fun but there is no new character development and I would like to see my character grow.... I want to be absorbed into the world... not just be a person sitting at my pc and controlling a PC.

GW is also too balanced... yes... too balanced. Life is not balanced and I would hate it if it were... it’s the differences in us that make life exciting. Only hard core PvPers want things completely balanced and “fair” but as someone who has belonged on NWN servers that catered to both PvP & RP... the PvP was so much more fun when it wasn't nerfed to become “balanced”. As my fiance likes to call it, GW is a FAG - Fantasy Action Game.

*Pauses to reminisce about the great battles were my team got there ass kicked because were not diverse enough to cover it... therefore it was kicked*

The great thing about not having everything so balanced is that we really had to work as a team to make up for each other’s faults... and in a way the imbalances is what balanced us. I don’t PvP on GW cause there is no real point to it unless you are trying to climb the ladder. *sighs*

I feel that GW is trying too hard to cater a little bit to everyone or to many genres of gamers and therefore not really pleasing any of them. Despite my post here I really like GW... really I do... when I want to play a game that doesn't ask to much of me and I don’t have to use my brain to play... hell... half the population of GW don’t use their brains... they can’t even figure out how to use the trade channel to buy and sell...

*hugs and kiss... runs away giggling*
Andi DeMorte

Aint She Fancy

Aint She Fancy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

The Incuebation [iNc]

Mo/

I haven't decided if I'm going to purchase Ch. 2 or not. I play UO and the "expansions" which were stand alone games...kinda made me lose interest in the game. However, I like GW more than UO, and I'm willing to see what ANet has in store for us. I'm not making any assumptions or hopes on anything besides what's in the magazine...because we simply don't know.

Phades

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher
Annoying isnt it? Mention any PvP aspect in their game and people start going nuts and making wild untrue speculations. Get a grip people.
Lol yeah, its not like the pve content is only going to be available to people in the top 100 ranked guilds from GVG battles. The UW/FOW from tombs results was a little poorly implemented to the nature of time zones and the geography groupings. This new hints and factions you choose to join does away with this issue entirely. The only thing to monitor is the quantity and general player preference between the two, if the player actually gets to pick the side as opposed to being assigned to a side and merely opting to take part within a pvp area just like the random arenas.

Wrath Of Dragons

Wrath Of Dragons

Burninate Stuff

Join Date: Aug 2005

New Mexico

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi DeMorte
I know it’s been a while since I did my doppelganger but I’m fairly sure that you had to be lvl 20 to do that.
i got past mine at lvl 14, and the bonus put me up to almost 20

ScorchedSun

ScorchedSun

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Southern California

Mo/Rt

I'm going to buy this issue of the magazine to check it out. After reading the short summary of the first post, I'm quite excited for Chapter 2.

Malchior Devenholm

Malchior Devenholm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Dragon Arena!!!

Pshycho Ninjas [oGod] | Vent Rage [vR] | Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS]

I LUV ALL THE STUFF MENTIONED...The ritualist astounds me and all the new skills WOW!!!

25 NEW SKILLS FOR ALL THE EXISTING PROFESSIONS?! *runs to Ember Light Camp with cash in hand*

Im a little worried about the old guys coming into Cantha...I knew it would happen but if a new person DOES pick the OPTION to PvP on a Cantha mission, it wouldn't be fair if he ran into the Lv 20 Tank who he could never ever bring down.....

Wonder how that will be changed...?

MoldyRiceFrenzy

MoldyRiceFrenzy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

Santa Rosa, CA

Confusion in The Ranks[tArD]

Mo/W

i thought they were gona come out with ways to customize guild hall!!! oh well the new thingies in chapter seem great

Malchior Devenholm

Malchior Devenholm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Dragon Arena!!!

Pshycho Ninjas [oGod] | Vent Rage [vR] | Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS]

moldy....it said new guild halls on 1st page...

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi DeMorte

I feel that GW is trying too hard to cater a little bit to everyone or to many genres of gamers and therefore not really pleasing any of them.
Haha, so true. Let's see they try to catch MMORPG players, crpger's (single player usually), real world rpger's, magic the gathering players, team multiplayer gamers... AND stick it all into an interdependent vehicle. From my perspective, I'd have to agree their intractability in forcing so much together starts to break down the whole thing. It's mostly only interesting any more because it's so changeable... not because they've really impressed me with their solutions so far.

Rico Carridan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Eternal Comrades

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi DeMorte
Soooo not excited about GW2. Why? It is not RPG. It’s sold as an RPG but really there is no RP. I have never seen a person in a town or been in a group of players that has been IC... everything is OOC. I purchased GW with the intention of actually RPing.... Maybe I am just to hardcore DnD... Maybe I’m just gullible on the loose interpretation of RP... I dunno... ya’ll are good at calling names so go for it.
I'll agree with you here. Most MMORPG's don't have much in the way of RP though honestly from what I've seen, so I don't really see that as huge difference. There have been petitions for roleplaying only town districts around for months, for what its worth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi DeMorte
I hate the lvl cap... I would like to see the lvl cap lifted to gain a few more lvls. Better solution would have been to make lvling harder and not required to be lvl 20 before the last 2 stages of the game. I know it’s been a while since I did my doppelganger but I’m fairly sure that you had to be lvl 20 to do that. The game is now stagnant for me. The new area & quests are fun but there is no new character development and I would like to see my character grow.... I want to be absorbed into the world... not just be a person sitting at my pc and controlling a PC.
I could be mistaken here, but don't your average D&D campaigns typically have lower levels than what we have in Guild Wars anyway? Yes, you level more quickly in GW than in other games, but Anet's reasoning on the matter is more or less sound, just different from your typical RPG.

The doppleganger has been beaten at level 3, by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi DeMorte
GW is also too balanced... yes... too balanced. Life is not balanced and I would hate it if it were... it’s the differences in us that make life exciting. Only hard core PvPers want things completely balanced and “fair” but as someone who has belonged on NWN servers that catered to both PvP & RP... the PvP was so much more fun when it wasn't nerfed to become “balanced”. As my fiance likes to call it, GW is a FAG - Fantasy Action Game.

The great thing about not having everything so balanced is that we really had to work as a team to make up for each other’s faults... and in a way the imbalances is what balanced us. I don’t PvP on GW cause there is no real point to it unless you are trying to climb the ladder. *sighs*
In many ways, GW is more of a strategy game than an RPG in the classical sense. A flexible sort of balance is crucial, since, otherwise many classes are simply obsolete. Since you brought up Neverwinter, I'll draw a point from that: in NWN (the original at least, it's been awhile since I've played, for all I know, the classes have been "nerfed" since then), there was no point to play the warrior class (barbarian?), pretty much ever. Why? Because a sorceror had better armor, could do more damage than the warrior could ever hope to be able to do, etc. Basically, there was an option available that was superior in every facet of play, at pretty much every level. From what we've seen of Anet, one of their objectives is to try to make not only every class, but every class combination, viable to play. Are some better than others? Of course. But the advantages aren't astronomical. And, more importantly, this means that the player strategy is more important than some enormous innate advantage one class has over another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi DeMorte
I feel that GW is trying too hard to cater a little bit to everyone or to many genres of gamers and therefore not really pleasing any of them. Despite my post here I really like GW... really I do... when I want to play a game that doesn't ask to much of me and I don’t have to use my brain to play... hell... half the population of GW don’t use their brains... they can’t even figure out how to use the trade channel to buy and sell...

*hugs and kiss... runs away giggling*
Andi DeMorte
When it comes to the internet, courtesy and intelligence are the first things that go out the window. That applies to pretty much any game you play, I don't think that is a problem in GW any more or less than any other online game.

Rico

Grammar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Seeing as how we're getting at least 2 new professions to play as, what's the official word on additional character slots?
Holy mother of God I hope we get more character slots (no fewer than 2 more I hope).

As for raising the level cap, I think I'm fine with it right were it is
I like how GW is all about attribute point allocation and skill selection, rather than level.

nnms

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

on one account i can have only 4 characters... in that Expansion - its increasing? i can create more characters on account?


p.s. pardon for my poor english...

VGJustice

VGJustice

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tyria, cappin' ur bosses

Boston Guild [BG]

R/W

Quote:
Guild Halls will have NPC-like merchants, storage agents, additional guild storage and scrimmage play.
YYYYYEEEEESSSSS!!!!! XD

Kunfushun

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

Sydney, Australia

Mo/

i just want one day that there is a australian region.. so we can own up tombs and take the top 5 in guild ladder!
xD

oh and also cant wait for this expansion..

chilln_1ce

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Carridan
When it comes to the internet, courtesy and intelligence are the first things that go out the window. That applies to pretty much any game you play, I don't think that is a problem in GW any more or less than any other online game.

Rico
Problem is that (as much as I don't want to call it a problem) Guild Wars is free, and that means much more 13 year olds, who's parents would never condone paying for a standard free based MMORPG (and for good reason )

Oh and I too badly want an Australian server, hell even an Asian server would be so much better than bearing the horrible lag we get even from US servers. Early on it dosen't matter but once you get into lategame PvP and attempt to perform builds that require any form of timing, the lag quickly becomes unbearable.

Gururian

Gururian

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Rangers Of Chaos(RoC)

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
that is the queation and as a stand alone game only 2 professions would be very slim plus it has (probably) a few months to go before release i dont think they have given us all the professions that will be in it.

CHAPTER 2 is very important as it will either get people in the idea of *OMG I HAVE TO GET IT LOOK HOW MUCH MORE I GOT*

or

*OMG I SPENT 50 BUCKS AND ALL I GET IS THIS?*

that is why i think there will be more
I wouldn't say " OMG I SPENT 50 BUCKS AND ALL I GET IS THIS? ".. because this IS a free game to play.. unlike WoW and most MMO's. You're saving that money over the time you play this game anyway..

iamliving

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

Singapore

Ophiuchus the Serpant Bearer [OSB]

E/Me

i hope there will be no devourers, cause they were like everywhere in chap 1

Seissor

Seissor

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Squiggilyville. Population: Me.

[oRly] Hello Kitty Death Squad

R/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
i cringe at the idea of new skills for existing classes, that is gonna cause months of unbalanced pvping, just look at how long it took them to fix stacking auras
I don't get it...you want an expansion that offers no new content because of the small chance value it will throw off PvP for maybe a week at best?

Elfshade

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Netherlands

Claws of Shadowborn [CS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_M
As long as they make my warrior go on a diet and not look like a fat bas**** and my necro no longer look like he had a close encounter with a belt-driven floor sander (or make the females look fat and ugly as well, I'm all for equality between sexes ) I'm sold.
Newsflash: Jealousy can be counselled

Your warrior having to consume more Slimfast +2 and less Dwarven Ale doesn't mean that my lovely female Ranger alter ego needs to develop pixelated synergies with whales or elephants

Elfshade

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Netherlands

Claws of Shadowborn [CS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamliving
i hope there will be no devourers, cause they were like everywhere in chap 1
Still? Darn, I thought I got all of them. Ah well, back to bug farming ... (fires up Starship Troopers movie in the background for errr ... inspiration ...)

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Yeah where's the celulite on females legs and butts? Warriors do look fat and ugly. And necros have always looked stupids. haha They all look like they are humped backed. Except for the females. The female characters are hot on every graphic, but, the male graphics are horrible. I'd also like more skeletal selection, for short, tall, fat, thin, pimples, boils, SCARS, etc. etc. Really be able to make my character look unique instead of these cookie cutter models we get, even females.

Elfshade

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Netherlands

Claws of Shadowborn [CS]

I can only claim having read 50% of this thread, but the new classes seem very intriguing.

I am not going to echo "will there be more character slots thats my main point for buying the expansion". Whoops - maybe I just did

But asking those who have maybe read the magazine and/or have understood all the bits that are still puzzling me:

Will this expansion with all the guild and faction membership stuff screw my beloved way of playing Guild Wars, i.e. mostly ignoring all guilds stuff, pick-up-group, other players and PvP, and playing the entire PvE campaign with henchies? Will I still be able to be member of some faction while continuing to be mostly lone wolf or will I be an outcast, my vendor prices skyrocket and areas closed to me?

Its more of a rhetorical question. I just hope arena net balances all that out properly for ALL kinds of players ...

Also, its all nice to have that new content. But where's a FEATURE LIST? I mean, will there be an auction system? Smarter pets? And all the other 1 million gazilion things asked for on the forums over and over and over again? As much intrigued I am by new classes and content, I'd really like to see a list of these things that actually improve the Guildwars framework, UI and player experience.

Elfshade

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Netherlands

Claws of Shadowborn [CS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonya
Yeah where's the celulite on females legs and butts? Warriors do look fat and ugly. And necros have always looked stupids. haha They all look like they are humped backed. Except for the females. The female characters are hot on every graphic, but, the male graphics are horrible. I'd also like more skeletal selection, for short, tall, fat, thin, pimples, boils, SCARS, etc. etc. Really be able to make my character look unique instead of these cookie cutter models we get, even females.
And much more selection and details. More hair styles. Faces. Variants.

I remember the better face mods for Morrowind ... oh my. That was like four-five years ago and the fan-made meshes and graphics kick **** of the Guild Wars character graphics and customizability so badly ... ouch.

Fear The Destroyer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

I can't wait for Chapter 2.

Aint She Fancy

Aint She Fancy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

The Incuebation [iNc]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfshade
Smarter pets?
How about "controllable" pets? With commands like stop, stay, kill, follow... It would at least keep your pet attacking the same target without you having to call it all the time. Oooh, rideable pets. ^.^

Riplox

Riplox

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

North Carolina

Shrophire Protectors [Lion]

W/

Well, beyond the Assassin and Ritualist news, I think they'll be bringing some stuff to the table as far as armament is concerned. I'm thinking two-handed swords (katanas bizatch!) and axes and 1-handed hammers, plus crossbows and throwing daggers/stars, and halberds >. Maybe to get from Tyria to Cantha with your old characters, you'd have to do some missions. I dunno. It's early, I have my classes to get to, and my brain isn't working very well.

VGJustice

VGJustice

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tyria, cappin' ur bosses

Boston Guild [BG]

R/W

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'm gettin kinda excited about testing out these new classes. I keep thinking A/Me for dual-wield with IW for some reason X3

{integral}

{integral}

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Just down the road.

Mo/

Do we have any idea on pre-ordering for the US or Europe?

eur0b0y69

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

In YO FacE ! :D

Dudele Acre [CGR]

I just cant wait to get chapter 2, but im not that excited. We will take our lvl 20 chars to go fight in new lands with lvl 25-30-35 monsters, we will NOT go at lvl 30(lets say), I like both aspects of the game PvP and PvE, but PvE i think(just my personal opinion)will not be as balanced.Anet concentrates on the PvP aspec more than to the PvE aspect.....One more thing, what is with the fractions?, is that like an allience, can someone tell me more info about it?.

led-zep

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

sounds very pvp based, may well give chapter 2 a miss after all or wait til i hear how it turns out, wehn will anet realise not all of us like the elitism of pvp

temp

temp

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

my bedroom

Band Of Death UK

they gonna be uping the number of characters too? and whats this i heard about more storage? is all that gonna be in there..i really need more space..n i <3 my necro + my warrior + my monk any chacne of there being more character slots?

Battle Torn

Battle Torn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scotland

W/Mo

I heard there would be shield mods as well.

hope this doesnt take too long to come out... Im saving my gold in anticipation of new armour

fiery

fiery

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

maryland

InYurFace Gaming [IYF]

R/

Quote:
The assassin doesn't sound support based, it sounds more offensive than a Warrior (and that's pretty damn offensive).
how do you know are you a developer?

read up people gain information from reading sites..and it says on the chapter 2 thread.

Quote:
Oh yeah. Ritualist will have 3 attributes. One is Healing(a.k.a. healing prayers), one direct damage(a.k.a. smiting prayers or blood magic) and one with spirits. I don't understand the purpose of first 2 because healing prayers will be better and the other one will be same damage as blood or smiting, that is lacking compared with elementalist.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=104371

The Ritualist
A dark, savage priest; mix between ranger, necromancer and monk.
Primary attribute increases the durability of the ritualist's spirits and other creatures, such as ranger pets.
Attribute skills include direct-damage spell line, immobile spirit creatures, and healing.
Sample skill list: Essence Strike, Pain, Spirit Burn, Channeled Stroke, Shelter, Flesh of my Spirit. (complete description in magazine)

read next time. maybe not the same words but the meaning is clear.