So which of those 7 hero builds are working?
AndrewSX
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspi
I mean that the Necro SS isn't good combined with Panic + Ineptitude, that shutdown both attacks and spells. Never said that Panic + Ineptitude is bad.
aspi
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewSX
Never said that Panic + Ineptitude is bad.
Ah me and my big mouth 
Really should learn to read before commenting. Agreed btw SS is one of the worst elites to bring with those mesmers elites. Might be ok if you take it yourself to punish the melee but heroes most likely will put it on the paniced mob :/
AndrewSX
Yes, the real problem of SS on heroes is:
1-Targeting
2-The fact that the 2 Mez heroes generally shutdown any action, making SS a waste of elite slot.
Also, there aren't sooo much good curse elites to swap SS. Feast of corruption isn't that bad, Pain of disenchantement/corrupt ench are nice utility and pressure skills, but there's so much else. Maybe Soul bind to damage healers, Plague sig(using Foul feast).
1-Targeting
2-The fact that the 2 Mez heroes generally shutdown any action, making SS a waste of elite slot.
Also, there aren't sooo much good curse elites to swap SS. Feast of corruption isn't that bad, Pain of disenchantement/corrupt ench are nice utility and pressure skills, but there's so much else. Maybe Soul bind to damage healers, Plague sig(using Foul feast).
Dark-NighT
I am running this setup, its not the quickest but it is one of the most stable builds ever, unless i overaggro nothing ever dies, which is good because im still working on survivor. Also did fow with it under 2 hours, no cons and it was good fun.
Vadog
Now, I'm working with this and it's good imo
distilledwill
Aly Lightningstorm
Why do so many people use Jagged Bones instead of Aura of the Lich? I mean, I understand the minion multiplication part of it, but it's also nice to have strong minions that can take and deal damage on their own. Especially when you have an all caster, low armor team that shouldn't be getting hit too often by enemy melee attackers.
Minions can do a lot more than act as suicide bombers.
Minions can do a lot more than act as suicide bombers.
Dzjudz
A Curses necro isn't very useful, especially as SS in a team with two mesmer (which is safe to say is the current meta). Just drop it completely and put Enfeebling Blood and Shadow of Fear on another character. They don't need high Curses at all to be useful.
You can spec an AotL necro for instance: 12+1+(1-3) DM, 10+1 SR, 8(+1) Curses.
If you need Mark of Pain as well, I'd use the SoS, with 12+1+(1-3) Channeling, 3+1 SP, 12 Curses (possible bar: SoS, Bloodsong, Spirit Siphon, Splinter Weapon, Enfeebling Blood, Shadow of Fear, Mark of Pain, Optional).
You can spec an AotL necro for instance: 12+1+(1-3) DM, 10+1 SR, 8(+1) Curses.
If you need Mark of Pain as well, I'd use the SoS, with 12+1+(1-3) Channeling, 3+1 SP, 12 Curses (possible bar: SoS, Bloodsong, Spirit Siphon, Splinter Weapon, Enfeebling Blood, Shadow of Fear, Mark of Pain, Optional).
Aly Lightningstorm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewSX
Trow in Botm, taste of death, sols and some secondary or blood stuff. NO death nova.
I usually don't use blood of the master on heroes, because it involves health sacrifice, and the LAST thing you want to have happen is to have a full army of minions going wild in the middle of a battle. If I was going to heal them (never do, heroes usually keep a full army up no matter what) I'd use feast for the dead instead of BotM.
I do usually give them death nova though. Since the minions are going to die, no matter what. I think it's better to let them explode in the process, than to not let them explode.
I do usually give them death nova though. Since the minions are going to die, no matter what. I think it's better to let them explode in the process, than to not let them explode.
Elnino
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewSX
P.S: SS + Panic/Ineptitude is a big nono.
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@Elnino - Orders with one physical, SS with Panic + Ineptitude + considerable amounts of shutdown, two healers, no Prot Spirit and two copies of Res Sig are the most glaring problems to me. I don't have the energy to fix all these problems right now though, just offering them for you to consider.
You're underestimating the damage one warrior can do
SS was my mistake, didn't seem to matter tho but I've changed it to Icy Veins now.
Things die so quickly, I rarely encounter any deaths. I can still easily tank damage with just the prots I have. Prot Spirit is unnecessary now. Besides, Spirit Bond>Prot Spirit
What's wrong with res sigs????? It's not like there's no bosses to kill and even then, when do they ever need to be recharged?
SS was my mistake, didn't seem to matter tho but I've changed it to Icy Veins now.
Things die so quickly, I rarely encounter any deaths. I can still easily tank damage with just the prots I have. Prot Spirit is unnecessary now. Besides, Spirit Bond>Prot Spirit
What's wrong with res sigs????? It's not like there's no bosses to kill and even then, when do they ever need to be recharged?
zwei2stein
Why so much love for Panic + Ineptitude and not for Psychic Instability (4s aoe ranged kd on 7s recharge...)?
distilledwill
To be perfectly honest, I haven't tried PI on a hero. But Panic is a good "fire and forget" interupt. You can have the hero cast it on a mob and have the spells come at you one at a time. Easy peasy.
PI would be nice for the KD I suppose. Might be worth a go!
PI would be nice for the KD I suppose. Might be worth a go!
Plutoman
PI is amazing, especially on a Me/Rt healer, with PI as the main. Use a couple other insp spells for energy, and it's solid.
But it does lack the damage output of Ineptitude, and the constant interruption of panic. It also lacks synergy with most other mesmer skills that do damage, except ES. If you want to use PI, use it with Panic or ES, but leave out the illusion mesmer. There's a distinct lack of synergy.
But it does lack the damage output of Ineptitude, and the constant interruption of panic. It also lacks synergy with most other mesmer skills that do damage, except ES. If you want to use PI, use it with Panic or ES, but leave out the illusion mesmer. There's a distinct lack of synergy.
Dzjudz
Shatter Hex/Enchantment 10 energy instead of 15, better optional now .
.
bhavv
Quote:
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Why so much love for Panic + Ineptitude and not for Psychic Instability (4s aoe ranged kd on 7s recharge...)?
Panic interrupts and shuts down a lot more than PI does, and Ineptitude is just heavy damage plus attack mitigation and blind.
The damage output and shutdown from the two combined is just crazy good.
The damage output and shutdown from the two combined is just crazy good.
Jeydra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elnino
You're underestimating the damage one warrior can do
SS was my mistake, didn't seem to matter tho but I've changed it to Icy Veins now.
Things die so quickly, I rarely encounter any deaths. I can still easily tank damage with just the prots I have. Prot Spirit is unnecessary now. Besides, Spirit Bond>Prot Spirit
What's wrong with res sigs????? It's not like there's no bosses to kill and even then, when do they ever need to be recharged? I think the damage ouptut of one Warrior without Orders + something else > the damage output of one Warrior with Orders.
I used to think Prot Spirit is unnecessary now too until I tried to clear Ooze Pit with it, only for the three Prismatic Oozes to annihilate me.
If you die so rarely you never need Res Sig to be recharged, why do you even need Res Sigs? Why not just rely entirely on hard res?
SS was my mistake, didn't seem to matter tho but I've changed it to Icy Veins now.
Things die so quickly, I rarely encounter any deaths. I can still easily tank damage with just the prots I have. Prot Spirit is unnecessary now. Besides, Spirit Bond>Prot Spirit
What's wrong with res sigs????? It's not like there's no bosses to kill and even then, when do they ever need to be recharged? I think the damage ouptut of one Warrior without Orders + something else > the damage output of one Warrior with Orders.
I used to think Prot Spirit is unnecessary now too until I tried to clear Ooze Pit with it, only for the three Prismatic Oozes to annihilate me.
If you die so rarely you never need Res Sig to be recharged, why do you even need Res Sigs? Why not just rely entirely on hard res?
bhavv
I just tried this out on my rit, seriously all other builds will feel completely obsolete in comparison once you try this out:
The team is completely invincible with the player going as the soul twister, and it cuts through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter.
It pretty much feels like the nail in the coffin for my Elly, too bad that my elly is my main title farming character
The team is completely invincible with the player going as the soul twister, and it cuts through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter.
It pretty much feels like the nail in the coffin for my Elly, too bad that my elly is my main title farming character
Jeydra
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaav
The team is completely invincible with the player going as the soul twister, and it cuts through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter.
HM WiK Wanted quests are not difficult, not by the standards that the best 7H builds should be able to live up to. The build you posted isn't the only one that can "cut through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter", and in fact I'll wager it's slower than other options, too.
Someone really should make a thread saying how wrong it is to say that so-and-so build clears all the VQs I've attempted / all the missions I've attempted in both NM + HM / all the dungeons I've attempted in both NM + HM, therefore it is good ...
Someone really should make a thread saying how wrong it is to say that so-and-so build clears all the VQs I've attempted / all the missions I've attempted in both NM + HM / all the dungeons I've attempted in both NM + HM, therefore it is good ...
Kaida the Heartless
3x Mesmers (Panic, Ineptitude, Keystone)
2x Eles (ER Prot, Searing Flames)
2x Necros (Restoration Rit, Jagged Bones)
1x Me (Necro) on Spirit Spam
Haven't really spent more time on any vanquish than an hour and a half. This isn't even ideal damage because I'm going for Survivor the long way.
As for your build:
Why 4 Hard Reses? I also know for a fact that your Inept Mes is constantly out of Energy. Heroes don't use Overload correctly. SoGM is terrible for Vanquishing due to downtime on spirits. And is that... Black Powder Mine?!
2x Eles (ER Prot, Searing Flames)
2x Necros (Restoration Rit, Jagged Bones)
1x Me (Necro) on Spirit Spam
Haven't really spent more time on any vanquish than an hour and a half. This isn't even ideal damage because I'm going for Survivor the long way.
As for your build:
Why 4 Hard Reses? I also know for a fact that your Inept Mes is constantly out of Energy. Heroes don't use Overload correctly. SoGM is terrible for Vanquishing due to downtime on spirits. And is that... Black Powder Mine?!
Dzjudz
Searing Flames?
Kaida the Heartless
It's a vanquish. Average armor level is like 80ish. Besides, not many other options for high direct AoE damage that I haven't used.
Dzjudz
It seems you have at least one Merc (3 mesmers). If you have another, I'd suggest ESurge domination.
Elnino
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
Quote:
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I used to think Prot Spirit is unnecessary now too until I tried to clear Ooze Pit with it, only for the three Prismatic Oozes to annihilate me.
Re-think your build perhaps? I suggest some more defense would do you some good since you couldn't kill/shutdown the Oozes fast enough. Maybe some micro management of your heroes too? Quote:
Weaken armor provides an extra aoe condition for discord so that enemies are more likely to be covered with conditions all the time.
All the time I've been using that MM build, I have had enough minions with vampiric + shambling. Quote:
3x Mesmers (Panic, Ineptitude, Keystone)2x Eles (ER Prot, Searing Flames) 2x Necros (Restoration Rit, Jagged Bones) 1x Me (Necro) on Spirit Spam Haven't really spent more time on any vanquish than an hour and a half. This isn't even ideal damage because I'm going for Survivor the long way. As for your build: Why 4 Hard Reses? I also know for a fact that your Inept Mes is constantly out of Energy. Heroes don't use Overload correctly. SoGM is terrible for Vanquishing due to downtime on spirits. And is that... Black Powder Mine?! |
Searing flames is far worse in HM than discord is. I play an elly as my main character and exclusively used searing flames since NF was launched so I should know. I used to run several searing flames heroes and cynn in NF, and it was far too squishy and didnt kill stuff as fast as triple discord does. You have both lower damage, and lower defense with searing flames ellys in HM, there isnt really anything decent about running it once you try mesmers / necros / rits instead. And yes I had a ToF paragon with it as well, it was still worse than discordway.
4 hard resses because what do you do if the heroes that have your res die? You cant rely on just a couple of resses because if those should die then you cant get them back up. Also I've had my inept mes running around casting Renew Life no problem, Arcane Conundrum + WNWN usually provide a decent energy refil to use the res if needed.
The only time I take less resses is when I have UA. And once when I had UA and Death Pact signet only in my group (cant remember what it was I was doing, but it wasnt on my rit), both the UA and the death pact hero were killed, and then everything else starts dropping because the primary healer is gone, and so are both my resses.
About Black Powder Mine - put up spirits, place the trap where the spirits are. If enemies come to whack on the spirits, they end up blind. It works brilliantly well in UW spirit farming, and I tried taking it into PVE and it works just as well.
SoGM is fine for vanquishing, the spirits are usually recharched while running in between mobs, the downtime really isnt too long to make it inconvenient.
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