Elite Mission Available to All ?

You can call it communism but I call it community bonds.

Everyone paid the same price for GW:F so everyone should atleast have a chance to try out these elite missions. We might be totally nooblet pugs who don't know what the heck we are doing in these missions but atleast we get to enjoy this part of the game.

Holding a town for the sake of elitism is not how a CORPG works. GW can only be fun if people are willing to help each other.

I know it's like a utopian dream, but I still hope for stronger community bonds in GW.

I hear a lot of talk about, "Oh elite missions should be rewards for this, and this, and this, and this." But none of these ideas pertain to alliances at all. What do titles and game completion have to do with guilds? Absolutely nothing, that's what.

Elite missions were obviously intended to be a reward for the top alliances. With the faction system, it may be grinding but it's still a reward that was achieved with the cooperation of the alliance, which is what AreaNet seems to be all about.

The game is called Guild Wars for a reason. Much of both Prophecies and Factions is about cooperation and competition (Hence the name CORPG) between people. So why would earning a certain title or beating the game or paying make you deserving to access an elite mission that was intended as a reward for alliances?

I myself absolutely love the alliance system (except for the grinding factions part, but who the hell loves grinding?) and I love the fact that you can hold cities (my alliance has not done so yet) and I love the fact that you can ally with Luxon or Kurzick.

Think of a good way of earning the elite missions without grinding but while still requiring the combined effort of the alliance and maybe I'll support it. But by no means should this be free access to all, that would and does defeat the entire purpose.

Wow. Just wow. Elite missions are barely even anything, it's one freaking map that you can't access. It's seriously not that big of a deal. Once again, this is coming from someone who's alliance has less than 50k faction.

Here's how to fix it:

Either

a) Allow everyone to do the mission, but the guild who controls it doesn't have to pay to do it (make it be 5k or something, the rewards are worth it)

or b

b) Same as a), except only guild members with a certain amount of faction can do it, and the ones with most do it free.

This is why, in spite of great acts of community spirit by TC and others the system needs to be fixed. Why should it rely on the good will of others to bypass a broken game mechanic.

No matter who holds or does what with towns, it's still grind>skill

My theory is this: If each and every person who wants to get into The Deep contributes about 500 faction per day (once alliance battle's worth), including the members of the alliance, The Crusaders can control Cavalon for a long time to come. If another, mean-spirited alliance turns up with X-million more faction than the TC alliance, we can all work a little harder to regain that faction. Of course, if you'd rather spend your faction on money, that's fine. Just don't expect to be let in.

The status quo (up until a little while ago) was that TC was being completely selfless, allowing anyone and everyone into the mission. While this is to be commended, I do not think they can maintain control of a town by relying upon entirely random and arbitrary donations of faction while relentlessly farming it themselves.

Exactly. It might have sounded interesting on the grease board or even looked okay in beta testing, but this doesn't work on a community wide level. You nailed right on. It is a "broken game mechanic" or just plain and simple very poor game design.

so the 100+ pictures that we have stored of you guys flaming us isn't trash talk?

I personally want all of this to end. BkBd has no idea who went into your guild and kick out anybody. If that person was some how connected to our alliance, I apologize. We also had people in our alliance who backstabbed us and messed with our alliance. We've also had rage quitters (an entire guild with 1,000k+ faction). We are trying to stop all members from our alliance from flaming.

I just want to drive a point about the Deep/Elite Missions. This is quoted from the box.

The Elite mission are for the alliances who earned it. This is what hte BkBd alliance believes in. We believe that if you want to get into the Deep, you must earn it. Our alliance is willing to take down people but we will be choosing them selectivally. We have not decided yet on how we will choose them, but we will be taking people down.

even though we lost cavalon, I must say I am proud. Proud to see so many people in The Deep and I don't think so it will be empty soon... As long as BkBd holds cavalon, people will be there with their characters. We did what we wanted.

This topic is starting to lose my interest. People need to realise that just because they can't get something doesn't mean it's wrong and "needs to be fixed". I admit that the grind is wrong, but if everyone got everything for free then there would be no game, it would just be pointless.

And the hate against BkBd needs to stop. I am not in BkBd, but it does not seem like they did much against you compared to your own actions. Half of this topic has been BkBd hate, and yet there was only one immature post made by them? There are over 900 members in BkBd, do you really expect them all to be great members? Of course not. But that doesn't make them a bad alliance.

Yet all I see is TC being put up on some pedistal and praised as though they are perfect, while BkBd is some evil empire wishing to destroy people's lives. BkBd did not even post until very late into this thread, I have heard from their members that they were even told not to post here in order to avoid confrontations.

I do not understand TC, they act noble like they are friends to all, yet they treat BkBd much lower than what they are. I see many BkBd flames here, perhaps they are not always by TC members but TC has not condemned the flamers and thus have given them silent approval.

I had no idea TC ALLIANCE was doing this - been a daily visitor to the Photics.com website and newly joined forum member I was so fortunate to be a lone person that answered a shout "all those who want to try elite mission invite urself!"

I couldn't type fast enough I was so impressed with the guild's generosity - and all they said after a billion thank you's was "Sure np courtesy of the TC Alliance "

Well I have to say because of sheer fear that I would NEVER get in there again I played and never logged off for probably 16 hrs. AND LET ME TELL YOU IT IS ALL THAT! I had a blast - much harder than tombs, much more fun !!! It is the best part of FACTIONS - I teamed up several times and played for hours and hours bought keys and enjoyed incredible weapons and surprising nice drops - especially when on an 8 man team due to err7 and leavers who died and didn't want to wait till we made it to their room and rezzed them... I got to enjoy seeing a gaming buddy delighted to get a gold Oni Sword drop as a thank you for all the things he's done and given me - that is what I love about this game - rewarding skill and having fun and doing it with others!

GUYS- WE ARE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. I will be forever grateful to the TC ALLIANCE for that opportunity even if it could only happen once. I WOULD BE DELIGHTED TO GIVE MY FACTION TO THEM IN EFFORTS TO KEEP IT OPEN FOR ALL!

ALL HAIL THE TC ALLIANCE! WHAT A CLASSY, GENEROUS GROUP OF PEOPLE!
I am impressed with what people can do when they all come together just in kindness to others - well done guys!

Sincerely,
Queen Frost Sting

If Elite mission would be avaible for all so whats the point in all faction system and taking over outposts? Cant u see, that Elite is what all this faction gaining is about? If u will make Elite free for all - about 25% of GWF is lost. ArenaNet - dont change faction system - it's good. Some ppl say, that they paid for game and they want to enter elite missions. Geeeesh - I paid for game and I DEMAND HoH to be opened for all. I dont want to get tired by fighting, I want direct portal to HoH!<sarcasm off>

Peace

Well the other thread got shut down such a pity too, one less thread that Anet will not see about the beast they created. I’m positive that they had only the best intentions of how it should work, and didn’t expect the mass hate that was created from the rift.

It would be fun to have these types of mission that Guilds and people can do in a mass group, it’s really the best part of the game that no one will experience unless those who give so much extra to the community that, I am sorry to say and even hate to say what Anet will not do.

In my humble opinion, making two missions available for like 0.01% of the total GW population is a retarded idea... And I am GLAD that you're wrong with that 25% number. It's much less than that, so the 99.99% of GW players not having access to that 1337 missions still have a great game to explore without being in one of the 5 of maybe 10,000 alliances that have actually access to it. Elite missions probably took more developers to make than there will be players to see it...what sense does this make?

I agree with all of your posts =).

IMO, rewards for owning towns should be something that's artifical (such as mini pets, firework, parties... etcs.). Not things that will have an impact of the game playing experience (like special missions with super rare drops).

Well in any case the faction system on the Luxon side is broken. I didn't even realize the Deep was the elite mission my friend just told me to get a free run there. My alliance will never control a town I'm sure but I don't think I should get free access to it personally.

HoH is open to all last time I looked.....

FoW/UU, Tombs, SF elite mission didn't lose 25% of GW.

Plus there are other perks to owning a town that still make it worth getting Faction points for.

I went over and deleted the last four pages' worth of inter-alliance fighting, and I don't care to go back over the other six pages. I'm leaving this thread open because it still has some valid discussion about elite missions, and I'm also tired of closing every discussion thread about elite missions because anti-alliance and pro-alliance people flood them with their flaming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GwG Forum Guidelines Personal attacks and flames between guilds and members of those guilds will not be tolerated. Do not, under any circumstances, make an insulting or derogatory post towards another guild or you will be banned and anyone else known to be in your guild will recieve a one day temporary ban. If you want to fight, fight in game and keep it off our boards.

I'm being lenient this time, but be warned: any more alliance vs alliance crap posted and I will start warning and banning.

Man, who even wants to go to The Deep anyway, anymore? It's a pretty mediocre mission, and the outpost is like every thread on this subject combined and multiplied one hundred fold in local chat. The currently ahead alliance is ferrying people out and a whole lot of anger and harassment is centering around that, added to the chaos of the entire situation (faction farming neanderthal losers omg lol). Everyone there is so full of themselves and trying to seem so intelligent and think they're entitled to everything in the world and I PAID MY DOLLARS $$$ WHERE'S MY CONTENT and serious business and jesus christ, shut up already and enjoy the game! Everyone wants to argue that they can't have any fun because of blah blah elite mission nazis blah, but it's pretty hard to have any fun when all you're doing is arguing.

*sigh* need i say any thing after what savio has mentioned?
i respect BkBd alliance, specially due to the organization and determination that they show towards their goals. I have seen them working the way any alliance should to achieve victory.

I will not name any one ( specially because of the reasons savio has mentioned above, and the policy which my alliance has set forth upon its members. ) Hence, my post ends here without any flames.

Regardz
An Elementalist/Faction farmer.

I got to play the Elite missions courtesy of TC...

I must say... WHOA!.. I never had so much fun!.. sure they were damn hard, and we had three leavers, but the people that remained, very resourcfull and it was fascinating to watch, even when dead! xD

I havnt really caught up on the arguing and not interested, but I know one thing for sure..

If our alliance gets hold of it I too would sit there all day and take people to the deep.. and I think every alliance should as well

gg!

Clear up your wording, you say THEY when it is only some people in the alliance, of which we do not condone their behavior. Similarly to Black Blades, of course they're will be flamers from BkBds flaming us and making up rumors...but they dont condone that either. Its really a minority of both alliances that are flaming other people.

thanks for making the deep open to all....now every group is filled with nitwits, and nooblets, with no chance of getting past room 3.

gg.

What? So grinding millions of faction suddenly makes you a better player?

No, but it makes you a dedicated one. Dedicated players, as a general rule, at least know what they are doing.

I can't even begin to tell you how many twits in 15k armor I've PUGged with.

Dedicated GW players in PvE mean nothing, really. Except they have a lot of time on their hands.

Dedicated? No: it proves you have a huge number of players in your alliance running to get factions.

Should the players who do not belong to a guild or the players who do not belong to an alliance, or the players who belong to a small alliance have the entrance of this mission refused? I don't think so.

Yes, there are newbies in the Deep. But please, tell me: who is not a newby there? Just find ONE experienced player in the Deep.

Since how long Factions exists?

Umm?

Well, this has been educational. I'll admit i lost interest around... approximately page 6, but what i have read has explained a lot.

Let me start by introducing myself, i go by the name Daktarins Bane in factions, and the rather humble guild i belonged to (known as the Moravian Tyrhants) was absorbed by a guild i, being rather new to factions, had never heard of, known as "The Black Blades". When i entered this guild i was met with a friendly group of people willing to teach me and help me as much as they could.

The problem i now face, became apparent very early on when joining this guild. The constant barrage of insulting whispers from people i don't even know is just insane. I don't bother replying, in a sad sorta way it amuses me. This would explain Akasun Sasori's rather... lets say unnecessary outburst, many people in our alliance do indeed feel rather alienated for such (in my opinion) a silly reason, why the hate?

I feel that the battle for cavalon is fair game, TC have shown this, i'm not too sure about the "donating faction" system they have been using, but hey ho, its an interesting use of the faction system that players have thought of, as are many builds for characters or tactics used in pvp. Anyway i digress, TC have shown it IS possible to take cavalon from us, and i hope they keep the battle up, we had lots of fun grinding for factions in runs/alliance battles (whichever suit us, i'm more of a fan of alliance battles).

We all have different opinions of what the elite missions are about, personally i feel they are what they are called... elite, thus i really only want to attempt it with people i trust. TC believe that the elite missions should be for everyone, i agree this is a noble cause, but in my opnion it thins out the skill base, making into the deep a far less pleasurable affair.

The point i am, rather haphazzardly, trying to make is, cavalon is there to be taken, we look forward to the challenge and will meet it as best we can. Have fun guys and i'll eagerly be looking forward to the next faction crunch between ourselves and TC, it was a blast last time.

Can't we all just... get along?

Great post Daktarins, and it strengthens my point about BkBd being made out to be much worse than they are in reality.

Well, I didnt read this all so I'm not sure if this has been said, but maybe Anet should cap the amount of time you can control these elite missions for, or if you are controlling them for XX days you start to lose alliance at a greater rate. Well, my guild chose kurzick anyways but I dont think one group of people should be allowed to hold these places indefinitley.
Anyway I hope this works out for you guys and good luck.

no they're not, they're not much harder than any high level area (UW/FOW/Sorrows/Tombs) because you're not fighting huge groups, you're fighting groups slightly larger with TWELVE PEOPLE. oh you can run in wammo style and aggro an extra 20 if you like the challenge i don't see why you would but the only black blades member i played with liked to do it a lot.

IMO posts like this PROVE that you guys don't deserve to own the elite missions, you have shown that you're not skilled pvers, you're a grinding factory. Running to get faction requires no skill and the skills to play in pvp alliance battles don't translate to high end pve play.

sorry to sound so insulting but it's the truth, these elite missions are not elite. take your time, figure out the aspects, which enemies to pull, where to fight and always have an escape route and it's very very doable.

edit: i'd also like to add that i wouldn't have the slightest problem with only one guild holding the elite missions and not letting anyone else in if the rest of us who don't want to waste our entire game experiance grinding had SOME high level areas to go to, but we don't, we still have to take our newly made characters to the same areas we've been going to for the past year, factions begins at level 20 and the only high level pve areas are the elite missions - that's why everyone should have access.

Cheers to the crusaders for letting me in the deep .

Had some fun in there but every time you got some leavers or AFK'ers.
(only logical since the mission is big)

As Badfish said there are quite some naablets:
like an healer monk that tried to heal himself in room 7 (where are spells fail) when he was under attack...

And not to mention that my 3rd team wanted to kill the wurm before the aspect, while the aspect in that room made all enchantmenst fail...
(that would be no protective spirit vs an 300-1000 dmg dealing wurm)

Monks get trauma's out of such things XD
we made it to room 9 tough but i never came furher :P

Nice post daktarins. There is something to be said about Anet making a mission availabe only to one alliance but hey thats Anet's problem so go whine to them. Therefore that is not a reason to hate Bklb and their other members. If they earn their hold over Cavalon they can do with it as they please which is the way the game was designed. If you have a problem with the way the game was made why go crying like a 10 year old girl on these forums instead of complaining to Anet? Grab a clue, grow up a little, take a nap and remember the game is played the way it was designed.

We've made it to Kanaxai boss with PUG but we couldn't kill him [only one war had distracting and no shatter enchantment or so...]Next time I'll bring those things with me...

Grab a clue, grow up a little and remember games are there to be enjoyed, Factions isn't really a stand alone game, ANET had the entire prophecies player base to keep happy, if the over all consensus is that certain aspects of factions are unwanted, they should be changed. why keep the majority of players unhappy so a small percentage are happy? It's not a sensible buisness idea.

So you ripped this guy's post apart because he has a different opinion than yours? Wow..

No offense but did I not just say the exact same thing? Anet made a mistake by making the area exclusive but as long as it is dont go crying to Bklb. Instead take your hankie and give it a rest for a day.

well it was mostly because i was sick of the guilds who own the elite missions telling everyone they're too 1337 4 j00!!!!!! That feeling was made a lot worse when i actually played through it myself and got to the last boss on my second go with a pick up group (couldn't kill him because we had no enchant removal and 2 err 7s just before we got there)

*shrugs* What can i say, i don't like being told i wouldn't be able to do something...

my mistake, i misread your last post (been up studying most of the night), however, i wouldn't care about the elite missions if us plebs got some end game for our money, but we didn't that's my problem, however, i didn't like the way the black blades seemed to look down on everyone else either when they held it...

I just think most people in this thread act as if they can only have fun if they have access to every part of this game. Alot of Pvers don't have /rank emotes or reach the Hall of Heros and they complain but guess what? They still have fun with the game. IMO this is basically the same thing. If you can't get into an elite mission either try to control it yourself, find some other way to enjoy the game or go play something else. Simple as that.

after 2000 hours of prophecies i think it's ok to speak up if you don't like the expansion in the hopes that ANET will wake up and change things in such a way that will keep the MAJORITY of the players happy

For the sake of myself, my guildmates, the alliance and everyone else involved, it seems like some (further) clarification is in order.

1) Why don't all players have access to the elite mission? We all payed for the game, we deserve equal access, right?

Yes well payed our dues, and deserve an equal share of content, don't you think? However, as PaladinVII pointed out in our forums: "It's said directly on the box:

"Exclusive Elite missions : The most powerful alliances earn access to exclusive missions designed to challange even the most advanced gamers."

And in the manual on page 107:

ELITE MISSIONS : Elite missions are a special cooperative play challange for high level characters. An elite mission is played by a large group of characters on a dungeon-style map featureing multipul rooms, and offers many rewards in the form of gold and rare items. Elite missions allow parties of up to 12 players to team up and face the danger together. Each one has a unique set of objectives and victory conditions, and are only accessible to the highest-ranked alliances on either the Luxon or Kurzic side."

As descibed, elite missions would only be for the alliances who controlled the area which provides access.

Also, last I checked we had around 9 million faction, so factor in decay and get about 12 million, that's 12000 pieces of jadeite, and at around 2k each, that's 24 million gold we lost for control of Cavalon.

2) Why are the members of the alliance forbidden to sell Zodiac items outside the Alliance? Why are people who violate this kicked from the alliance?

When you spend all the time farming for faction, planning a Deep run, attempting a Deep run, finally succeeding, only to find that the area exclusive items are in the hands of someone who doesn't even know where they came from or why it's "Kanaxai's Axe", it makes all that time spent practically pointless. Like FoW armor, chaos axes and the like, these items are a status symbol and not any better then any other item statistically.

Alliance members who willfully violate this agreement are in the alliance for one thing: personal profit. They are not team players, and their attitude towards the game differs from our own in such a way that they cannot be allowed continued exploitation of the alliance's hard work as a whole.

3) Why are The Black Blades a bunch of elitist pricks who hate everyone outside the alliance?

First and foremost, if anyone feels that they have been mistreated by a member of the alliance, notify that person's guild's officers and explain the situation clearly.

Second, this is simply not the case. All the members of my guild have come to help me at prior missions, sold items at discount prices, and have provided general advice and wity game banter as all guilds should. Our goal was to be #1 and take Cavalon from the German guild GZSZ. When we finally took it, it wasn't "We R 2 1337 4 j00!!!1" so much as "We are #1!" If The Crusaders goal is to hold Cavalon and open The Deep, by all means have at it. I embrace the challenge to keep us on our toes. Haressment, bigotry, slander, and discredit to our name, however, will not be tolerated and dealt with accordingly. Take your fights to GvG.


I have one final word: as much fun as Guild Wars is, it is still just a game. So quit whining and play the game.

P.S. There are never any good groups in Unwaking Waters and I for one think...