Cant seem to get edit to work on my last post so here's ANOTHER reply on another thred (that took me no time to find without the search button...in the BUILDS section:
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[merged] Touch Rangers
TwinRaven
Problem is...this little build of mine (not taking credit, I play my own variation though) has come under fire. I've defended it and offered strategies to beat it for weeks...here again, though is yet another thread crying nerf: the main whining coming from wariors because they stand there swinging away at air never ONCE thinking about using the survival instincts God gave an ant :RUN AWAY!!!!
SERIOUSLY: read through Gladiator and use the search...you'll find all kinds of info and strategy...QUIT whining "nerf it" You folks who can't think around a build piss me off...first my necro gets the nerf-bat, now you wanna do the same to my ranger...the only classes I play with any joy. Can't get into a group to save my life for months when the game started...I paid my freakin' dues and now someone wants to nerf it because lo and behold, what I have been doing for 3/4 of the time I've played (not including beta) is too hard for some brainless tank to counter...try putting some defensive strategy into play, this isn't whack-a-mole!
I respect the opinions of players who are willing to debate and offer insight, but dropping in " yeah make em spells...only solution" is obviously the same dipstick, follow the leader, lemming-like behavior that makes people drive SUVs as commuter cars because they want to BELONG to something...the world has enough yes-men, so please add something unique and thoughtful to the thread or STHU!
JR- You said it...don't suck and you can beat a touchie.
Nine months of playing one and I can tell you what kills em off...energy denial, diversion (not not NOT NOT NOOOOOOTTTTTT...blackout...god I HATE when people don't read the thread and chime in with what has already been mentioned as worthless)....multiple conditions and heavy degen on top of diversion and e-denial will make them drop...stay out of range....cripple and run after a knock-down...kiting help (even dumbass warriors should know when to kite...NOT whine nerf when they are to damned stupid to pull their ass outta the fire)...multiple knockdowns are hard to deal with as well.<please note: dumbass warriors are a classification of warrior...not all warriors...there IS a disticntion>
EVERY build has a counter build, even touchies. I've had my ass dropped unexpectedly and expectedly by every profession...sometimes in combinations ( a mesmer and warrior together = ouchie). A warrior can't get mad if there is a build that can kill them...a tanker should not be the ONLY build that can withstand a beating.
Touch rangers are unique, but limited and run out of energy after one victim or so (even with good gear)...after one member of your party drops, gang up on the touchie...almost always gets me at the end of my mana supply and I have to run (ESCAPE is my prefered...not storm chaser or dodge...obviously mentioned by people who don't play a touchie or play a lame one IMO). Facing more than one? CALL TARGETS and bring res sigs...drop them often enough and the team with the most res wins!!!
Pardon the rant...just play the freakin' game and LEARN to deal with the builds as they come along...remember when you were scared of air-spikers?*mocking trembles* Consider who you attack in the game...the soft targets right? As it happens, warriors are soft targets for the touchie...learn to deal with it...tankers are NOT always at the top of the foodchain...they did away with that term...it's called the food web...it's a balance.
I can think of all the times an air-spiker, interrupt ranger or mesmer killed off my necro...I didn't bitch or cry nerf once...I bit my lip, typed "gg" and rethought my build...for all you "nerf" whiners...I suggest you do the same. There's a couple more and a posting on how to build one...just quit bickering already...for crying out loud *flabberghasted kuffuffalation*
Mr_eX
I've been playing Aspenwood for a few weeks now, and just yesterday I ran into my first touch ranger. Unfortunately, I was on my Warrior and I had never faced a toucher before, so I decided to meet him head on with my Dragon Slash adrenal spike. I did some damage and put Deep Wound on him, but he took me down first, even though he died shortly thereafter.
If I had been in the same situation with my necro, if that same touch ranger had any brains, he would run away, because I would have given him 9 degen and lots of Discord spam. Similar story with my mesmer, except it'd be even easier--10 degen, deep wound, and assorted armor-ignoring damage.
Touch rangers are powerful, but are by no means invincible. Just because it's easy to assemble and play doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. However, some people have pointed out that the touch skills aren't attack skills and shouldn't be affected by Expertise, and I agree. Hopefully this will be addressed in an upcoming skill update.
If I had been in the same situation with my necro, if that same touch ranger had any brains, he would run away, because I would have given him 9 degen and lots of Discord spam. Similar story with my mesmer, except it'd be even easier--10 degen, deep wound, and assorted armor-ignoring damage.
Touch rangers are powerful, but are by no means invincible. Just because it's easy to assemble and play doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. However, some people have pointed out that the touch skills aren't attack skills and shouldn't be affected by Expertise, and I agree. Hopefully this will be addressed in an upcoming skill update.
MelechRic
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Originally Posted by Theus
Crippling Shot cant be blocked or evaded.Your post fails.
Do I sense sarcasm or condescension? 
My non-touch R/N with Cripple Shot and Rigor Mortis lays waste to touchers.
My non-touch R/N with Cripple Shot and Rigor Mortis lays waste to touchers.
TwinRaven
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Originally Posted by Mr_eX
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However, some people have pointed out that the touch skills aren't attack skills and shouldn't be affected by Expertise, and I agree. Hopefully this will be addressed in an upcoming skill update.
I'm trying to figure out what seems a contradiction in this paragraph though...You suggest they don't need to be nerfed in the first part and then say you agree to a nerf in the second...Saying that non-attack skills should not be affected by expertise completely screws ALL rangers...all stances, calls and spirits costing full energy? Don't be rediculous. However, since you said "touch" skills...I assume you mean necro "skills" should be somehow turned into spells? So you penalize the necro who wants to counter mesmer/ranger attacks that affect spells by having a skill as backup? Nerf the necro? Again...don't be rediculous...my blood necro relies on skills being SKILLS.
Dart
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Originally Posted by TwinRaven
There's a couple more and a posting on how to build one...just quit bickering already...for crying out loud *flabberghasted kuffuffalation*
Well said TwinRaven... I play monk and warrior in AB, I love the new challenge this build has added to the game, who wants same old stuff everytime??? not me - finding a counter was a great challenge and trying to shut down touch rangers has been fun
now when i see them they become a prime targ GG
Mr_eX
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Originally Posted by TwinRaven
He died because he didn't get rid of the deep wound.Edit: According to its description, Expertise should only affect Stances, Traps, and attack skills (i.e. bow attack axe attack, etc.) Vampiric Touch, for example, isn't an attack skill, it's simply a skill. I'm not saying it should be made into a spell, just that it shouldn't be affected by expertise because it isn't an attack skill. Edit2: Turns out I'm completely wrong about Expertise's description. It says "Attack skills, preparations, and traps." That doesn't include Stances, non-attack skills, rituals, etc. Expertise's description needs to be clarified, which sort of makes the "Vampiric Touch isn't an attack skill and shouldn't be affected by expertise" argument invalid. Russell.Crowe
yeah! nerf something you can't kill! that is always the smart way to go!
Just a hint: Cripple = death to touchies C'mon, just think about it. Loki Seiguro
ugh plz stop trying to touch rangers..
if i was an admin i would ban people that post stuff like this. stop complaining about touchers and make a build that can counter it. - diversion comes to mind.... Miyamoto Tzu
I too believe that touch rangers are imbalanced and overused due to obvious advantages over a large percentage of the other builds in the game.
As has been pointed out there are definitely counters available and most professions will have a few skills that can be used effectively against the toucher but not everyone wants to switch their secondary to Mesmer in order to become a proficient touch buster. I am hoping that the obvious inconsistencies between skill descriptions and the practical implementation of these skills in the game will be addressed in order to even the playing field a bit. The touch ranger does not need to be nerfed into obselescence but should be toned down. At one point I thought that using SoJ against touchers would be an interesting approach...kd with some dmg coupled with skills that add dmg vs. kd'd opponents should have worked nicely but alas, being "Touched" and "Bitten" did not seem to be "physical attacks" as specified by SoJ. I've run into many instances where one touch ranger has tied up a whole AB squad for more time than any one build should be able to against four opponents of the same levels. I would expect this type of resilience from a lvl 28 or 30 PvE mob driven by AI but not a lvl 20, human driven character in a PvP environment that is supposedly well balanced. IMHO, ANet has allowed this build to flourish because of its obvious popularity and the fact that it keeps people playing GW to a certain extent. In The Scribe they have hinted at the possibility of toning the toucher down and I think its a modification that is long overdue. Tzu Navaros
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Originally Posted by Miyamoto Tzu
As has been pointed out there are definitely counters available and most professions will have a few skills that can be used effectively against the toucher but not everyone wants to switch their secondary to Mesmer in order to become a proficient touch buster. I am hoping that the obvious inconsistencies between skill descriptions and the practical implementation of these skills in the game will be addressed in order to even the playing field a bit. The touch ranger does not need to be nerfed into obselescence but should be toned down. At one point I thought that using SoJ against touchers would be an interesting approach...kd with some dmg coupled with skills that add dmg vs. kd'd opponents should have worked nicely but alas, being "Touched" and "Bitten" did not seem to be "physical attacks" as specified by SoJ. I've run into many instances where one touch ranger has tied up a whole AB squad for more time than any one build should be able to against four opponents of the same levels. I would expect this type of resilience from a lvl 28 or 30 PvE mob driven by AI but not a lvl 20, human driven character in a PvP environment that is supposedly well balanced. IMHO, ANet has allowed this build to flourish because of its obvious popularity and the fact that it keeps people playing GW to a certain extent. In The Scribe they have hinted at the possibility of toning the toucher down and I think its a modification that is long overdue. Tzu  The problem you came into with 4 players not being able to kill 1 Toucher is that you had a bad party, and/or a badly-equipped bad party. Either way, if your party didn't bring the skills to take him down, that is solely your party's own fault. It does not give a valid reason to nerf Touch Rangers. One individual player is not supposed to be able to beat any other build in the game. Touch Rangers are anti-Warrior builds usually, hence a Warrior should not expect to be able to take one down. No more than a Monk should expect to be able to take a Warrior down. Guild Wars is balanced for team play, not individual play. If Alex Weekes is to be believed, then Anet will not nerf Touch Rangers. Alex Weekes posted that balanced things are not nerfed due to "popular demand". Well, I'm taking that post of his and making Touch Rangers be "the litmus test". If Touch Rangers do indeed get nerfed it will be based solely on "popular demand", not for any legitimate reason.
aron searle
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Originally Posted by Miyamoto Tzu
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Cough
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I've run into many instances where one touch ranger has tied up a whole AB squad for more time than any one build should be able to against four opponents of the same levels. I would expect this type of resilience from a lvl 28 or 30 PvE mob driven by AI but not a lvl 20, human driven character in a PvP environment that is supposedly well balanced.
Ive taken a premade palidan into randoms and as the last man standing they were unable to kill me, healing hands needs nerfing. My healer/smite monk once took on 4 in aspenwood, they didnt have the right counters, Monks need nerfing. I saw an MM take on 3 people in aspenwood and flatten them, MM's need nerfing. My ranger once sniped over the balcony in aspenwood, killing the same 3-4 people 20 times, rangers shouldnt have bow attacks, they need nerfing. Ive seen warriors unable to do any damage to mesmers, mesmers need nerfing. /sarcasm I love touch rangers, most of them just stand there spamming whilst you get ready to chain some attacks that will kill them. Boofhead
Touch rangers are free faction. QQ more, nubs.
WLlama
If you (or your class) doesn't have a direct counter to touch, kite while the rest of your team hits the ranger. The toucher won't be able to keep up with the damage due to the inability to vamp touch and will die. This technique works with any group/builds so no more worries. (Yes, I know that touchers often include speed skills but that usually only gains them one or two touches during the chase, so don't stop kiting.)
On the other hand, a lot of the counters for touchers work on other classes to so you aren't building just for touchers...
Helll is for Heroes
If you cant counter touch rangers, you dont deserve the liberty of moaning.
Shendaar
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Originally Posted by Skuld
Maybe you missed the many other times this has been mentioned - they used to be spells and aint gonna get put back.
Oh I did not miss a single thing. I didn't know they used to be spells, but either way, what happens to them is out of your control I'm afraid.
TwinRaven
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from Mr eX:...Turns out I'm completely wrong about Expertise's description. It says "Attack skills, preparations, and traps." That doesn't include Stances, non-attack skills, rituals, etc. Expertise's description needs to be clarified, which sort of makes the "Vampiric Touch isn't an attack skill and shouldn't be affected by expertise" argument invalid.
"Expertise reduces the energy costs of all non-spell skills from any profession at a rate of 4% per point. This is contrary to the in-game description which claims it only applies to "Attack skills, Preparations and Traps"~Guildwiki | I agree the description needs to be clarified...but its function should NOT be changed. There are simply too many builds that use skills from other professions...nerf the use of skills from other professions and you nerf ALOT of ranger builds...You may as well say to rangers..."play your primary profession...nothing else" and we can all wave "bye-bye" to a large peice of the ranger's versatility... Bunny Thumpers, Ra/W runners, Ra/Rt spirit Spammers, Ra/Mo and others would all take a hit.
{IceFire}
touch=iway for RA
quanzong
Touch rangers should be banned, because they allways in alliance battles sitting there for a warrior to come by.
AND its just a matter of time before they make TOUCH MESMERS when they find out how to use Vamp Touch and Echo together.... DANGEROUS, +60ish damage OVER AND OVER until you drop dead... YIKES They need to serious mod some skills 4 real
shadowfell
It's kind of fun to play the kurz side of ab's and naturally, the luxon side is -full- of mm and touchies. I generally play as ranger and showing them how a real ranger is played, we win every time.
Russell.Crowe
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Originally Posted by quanzong
Touch rangers should be banned, because they allways in alliance battles sitting there for a warrior to come by.
AND its just a matter of time before they make TOUCH MESMERS when they find out how to use Vamp Touch and Echo together.... DANGEROUS, +60ish damage OVER AND OVER until you drop dead... YIKES They need to serious mod some skills 4 real ... because they should ban all people that use skills. Also, a touch mesmer would be stupid and wouldn't be effective. BTW echo wouldn't work because touches are skills not spells. P.S. they don't need to mod anything, people just need to mod their builds in order to prevent against them.
Edge Martinez
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Originally Posted by Miyamoto Tzu
but not everyone wants to switch their secondary to Mesmer in order to become a proficient touch buster.
I truly admire your retro position of thinking INSIDE THE BOX! Bluntly put, Diversion and Blackout are jokes for a good toucher. We can count too and we know a bit about the cast times, recharge times and durations of these two spells. Basically a ranger with a bow can annoy us to no end, but touchers who have refined the build and don't play the cookie cutter build posted on the internet have quite a few options. Some idiot is always in spell range with an enchantment active. Free health. Vampiric Gaze. Free health. We actively look for bows, and when we see them *gasp* we kite too, usually towards a control point with NPCs or those lovable Wammos fighting NPCs. Free health.
Through many trials and alot of error, my PvP character of choice is a Mesmer (I'd never take a toucher into serious PvP, even random arena. ABs only). I'm decent now, not as good as some of those folks I watch doing GvG (OMG, I'm a total noob! I read the internet AND watch GvG!). Here's my little hint on how my own Mesmer beats touchers when we test it in scrimmages. Illusion and Inspiration. Read through those skills and if it isn't apparent how they will own a toucher or even two or more, maybe try D&D online. Also, the same skills that would own a toucher would probably hurt most melee people and non healing casters alot more than your current build. Finally, all the people calling it a noob build? Maybe noobs use it, but they use boon, IWAY and much more too. Only noobs will use it outside of ABs. I remember back when Prophecies went active and folks would get owned by friggin' Frozen Soil, so they'd bring it and end up costing their team the game. Idiocy can ruin anything, but the touch ranger is what it is... a great build for Alliance Battles. Maybe remember the point of ABs next time you design that tank or ele. Know what would scare me more than seeing 4 Ra/N's? Seeing 4 Mo/W's, or 4 Me/E, or 4 E/Me, or especially 4 W/E. Besides, 4 touchers not on comms isn't the greatest PUG IMHO. I like touch, warrior, assassin, monk.
Ristaron
I MUST /sign
For the love of God... it's a brilliant build the first time someone comes up with the entire thing (not just spamming the skills)... and easily handled in one-on-one (in the middle of nowhere in 12 vs 12 maps when all there's left to do is kill him before he killes you)... but when I have four of them on me at a given time all PERFECT CLONES, I get pissed. I stopped playing 12vs12 because, like HOH, it's mostly down to who can use a cookie-cutter build the best. cagan
Ristaron ... i put it to you that if you have 4 of pretty much ANYTHING focusing on killing you ... then you are pretty much screwed, you being alone isn't the fault of someone elses tactics.
selber
The strength of the build is that this build is very very easy to play. You just can't do much wrong. Compare it with - let's say a Boonprot, - there will be a huge difference if a really good players is behind the keyboard or Mr. Fissure-Mending.
I don't know if Anet should care about such builds, but I would. Iway has shown before, what braindead-builds can cause to certain areas of PvP. Then again they have changed their attitude anyways. And of course, - if you nerf a very popular build and make it harder to play, then you always cause trouble. Changing those 2 skills to spells is *not* the way to go (and I pretty much doubt they would ever think about this), because they would be totally useless. Giving them a little recharge - let's say 4s - would be a good decision.
Ole Man Bourbon
Touch Rangers are really pretty easy to beat, as has been said.
Snare, Interrupt, Divert. Any of these will pretty much shut down a TR. Add in Degen or E-Denial and it's gravy. Unlike stopping many other builds, there are many, many skills available to shut down a TR, and they're commonly-brought skills. And when a TR is shut down, he's REALLY shut down (ie can't do jack squat at all).
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon
Unlike stopping many other builds, there are many, many skills available to shut down a TR, and they're commonly-brought skills.
Bingo. For those that complain about having to be a certain class (i.e. mesmer) to stop Touch Rangers, here's a quick list on how to use your current classes to do so...
Warrior - Any knockdown skill Ranger - Interrupts, traps, ranged cripple, ranged degeneration Necromancer - Degeneration, Spinal Shivers, Spiteful Spirit (to offset most of health gain) Elementalist - Water hexes, Ward Against Foes, knockdowns Mesmer - Degeneration, snares, diversion, edenial, etc... Monks - You shouldn't attack any opponent anyways  Any ideas for Ritualists and Assassins? 
Skuld
shocksin can zip in and kill it like THAT
rt - earthbinder, dissonence spirit
Ozric
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I posted some thoughts in that thread - I love the idea of a Mantra of Recovery/Diversion mesmer disabling the touch ranger,.....
Anyone used a water elementalist or a trapper to effectively combat touch rangers? After just starting pvp play for the first time for me recently and seeing all the touchers about, my Ele converted to Water for AB to combat these nuisances. Shard Storm and Ice Spikes and just Ice Spear and the occasional Vapor Blade does the trick on a touchie caught without an adjacent body to feed on, but when a meleeer sees I've got one on the ropes and wants to join in on the fun then my dmg dealing is pretty much negated as the toucher sucks on the meleeer that came to help. End result is the toucher is still dead but it took all my energy to do it if they have someone to feed on standing there, so yeah I think that's a bit unbalanced. I'd rather be air spiking a more balanced build than creating a build to combat a very specific one myself. That said, it's still pretty fun goading a touchie to chase you out in the middle of nowhere and then snare and kill him slowly, hehe,...but you're not really helping the team cap flags that way. Another kinda weird Ele build made specifically for harrassing touchies out in the open I played around with was Air/Water echoing Gust and bringing along Tenai'sPrison and Ice Prison,...must've been quite frustrating for the poor touch templaters, heh. xnightmythx
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
You know what really is overpowered? A toucher in the hands of an expert. ( Like me ).
But those experts don't play TR's anymore, because people will think they're bad players. The ones you see know, are the same copycats that used 55's and whammo earlier in the game. ( and some FOTM's too ) That is arrogant and ignorant all in one post. Congrats! In fact Why don't you tell us all some more about your 1337'nes and your originality! What a moron. Yep guys nothing to worry about, after all according to the expert here only noobs play touch rangers now. On the plus side, with him out of the way there is no need for nerfing. Anyways, Thouch Rangers can be defeated like all other classes. Learn the counter build. Its very effective. See the Ranger section. Chris Blackstar
I am currently testing a build known as a touch assasin, given that sins have the ability to shadowstep and skill combinations to serverly weaken and or kill an opponent, adding touch skills to finish off the kill, I believe would work best.
Remember a sin is not a tank, but a opportunist killer, let the war weaken the opponent then shadowstep in for the kill, or cripple an opponent, then use a defence skill to teleport away, then re shadowstep in and use touch skills to finish off, the key is weapon switching and energy management, but with practice it can definatly have protental, given that sins and rangers armor class is the same and differfent at the same time. Blackhawk
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Originally Posted by xnightmythx
That is arrogant and ignorant all in one post. Congrats! In fact Why don't you tell us all some more about your 1337'nes and your originality!
What a moron. Yep guys nothing to worry about, after all according to the expert here only noobs play touch rangers now. On the plus side, with him out of the way there is no need for nerfing. Anyways, Thouch Rangers can be defeated like all other classes. Learn the counter build. Its very effective. See the Ranger section. LOL couldn't have said that better myself
Esuna
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Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar
I am currently testing a build known as a touch assasin, given that sins have the ability to shadowstep and skill combinations to serverly weaken and or kill an opponent, adding touch skills to finish off the kill, I believe would work best.
Remember a sin is not a tank, but a opportunist killer, let the war weaken the opponent then shadowstep in for the kill, or cripple an opponent, then use a defence skill to teleport away, then re shadowstep in and use touch skills to finish off, the key is weapon switching and energy management, but with practice it can definatly have protental, given that sins and rangers armor class is the same and differfent at the same time. Yes, but the entire point of a touch RANGER is the fact that they can exploit expertise and spam vamp touch over and over like a mofo and also use the expertise stances for defense. If you're not gonna do that, then you just might as well just be called a blood spiker. You'll run into more energy problems than a touch ranger will, and also have weaker defenses besides teleport skills - which won't aid your durability, nor help you kill the opponent as quickly if your ass is getting owned all the time.
Evilsod
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Any ideas for Ritualists and Assassins?
Do they use Whirling Defences or is it just Dodge/Zojuns? Don't remember.If its just the latter i don't see why an assassin with the good ol cookie AoD, GPS, Horns, Falling, TF wouldn't kill it. With 7 degen and alot of distance between you and them they shouldn't last too long. My favourite assassin build recently been the AoD build w/ Blackout, a combo, a blackout and just attack and retreat when there skills recharge. So what your damage is sod all without skills, but its better than nothing if they can't heal. If your going as a fully organised team, Strength of Honour brings your damage up nicely.
Ristaron
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Originally Posted by cagan
Ristaron ... i put it to you that if you have 4 of pretty much ANYTHING focusing on killing you ... then you are pretty much screwed, you being alone isn't the fault of someone elses tactics.
I put it right back to you with FOCUS on how I said they were CLONES. When a build becomes so cookie-cutter that every so-and-so and his dog can do it (and worse, DOES it), something needs to be done.
Seriously, I used to monk in Tombs for an air spiker team of friends from a bunch of different guilds. That build required timing, dynamic playstyle, and fast reflexes. The R/N Toucher is not only straightforward and limited in its efficiency, it's a SINGLE person strategy in a TEAM game. If they nerfed the air spike, they had better damn well nerf these goddamn annoying touch rangers.
floplag
any build can be countered .. the problem is that so many are so locked in on thier own builds, that the required changes to defeat them are resisted. its as bad as the cookie cutter mentality that spawns the over use of a once creative thought
i admire the process that comes up withthe builds and see how they fit together.. i despise those that leech it and over use itt to the point that whoever first posted it probably noi longer would want to even take credit for it the problem is two fold.. over use of a build, and a lack of willingness to adjust to defeat it... which is worse ? i think any build that gets overused like this is a target for the nerf bat as people arent seemingly smart enough to recognize a good thing and to use it in moderation, as opposed to fighting 12 TR in AB ! in Aspenwood you get the EoE bombers ... in HA you get IWAY.. in AB, you get TR. all are not difficult to defeat if you have the right skills or classes on your teams... but how many of you actually go out of your way for the mesmers ? or the other skills needed ? apparently, not enough Phoenix Ex
Why not just run a team of 4 snare-degen mesmer to counter the touchers? they are even great against warriors and assassins so you are not limited to countering touchers only. Hell just put some degen conditions on the touch rangers and then run like hell and watch them panic to find a target to heal themselves or plague touch. Oh wait...ppl refuse to run so I guess rangers are overpowered...
If anything is cookie cutter its the boon prot used by every damn top guilds and the shock warriors and ether prodigy-heal party ele. Loomy
After much thought I've decided that touch rangers are, in certain circumstances, slightly unbalanced due to the lack of direct counters to the build. Touch rangers are basically high damage warriors without much utility because of lack of skill slots. And when you compare that high damage warrior without utility to a real high damage warrior without utility, you find that the touch ranger is mighty good in comparison.
- Energy denial is not effective. The build has built in energy regeneration and energy conservation via the expertise attribute. - Stances that avoid attacks are not effective. Conditions that prevent damage are not effective. Stances, blind, and weakness all affect warriors but have no effect on touch rangers. - Many of the hexes that work on warriors do not work on touch rangers. Hexes that slow attack speed, reduce damage, and make attacks hit do no damage. - Running does not count as a "hard" counter. You can run from anyone, it's a counter to everyone, therefore it is omitted from this discussion. Same goes for "killing". Killing is not a counter. - There is no Scourge Vampirism. Deep Wound does not affect Vampirism. The touch ranger has constant healing by virtue of nearly-uncounterable vampiric touch skills, and there is no way to negate the healing effects. What can you do? Break their stance and out damage them. Snare them and damage them while they can't attack. Use Diversion hex. Those "counters" aren't significant compared to the bible-sized list of warrior counters. And when you measure the damage output of a touch ranger against assorted warrior builds, you find that the touch ranger is comparable to high-tier warrior builds. Plus it heals itself. So while the touch ranger isn't spectacularly unbalanced, it does have a lot going for it. Weigh all the PVP types equally (don't trick yourself into thinking more people GVG than RA+TA+AB -- GVG players are just very loud) and you'll see that this build is effective in many situations in many PVP game types. The effectiveness, versatility, and a lack of hard counters to the build have convinced me that touch rangers are PROBABLY just SLIGHTLY more powerful than they should be. Mhelnos Smiting Bro
...Nerf rangers... jeeze are you kidding... finally something that can kill boon prot and be sucessful v other things... BOON PROT NEEDS TO BE NERFED FIRST... sure we all could run a mesmer and shutdown 1 boon prot then get owned by everything else... but no1 is gonna do that... its a waste of time... If you ask me its a darkhorse and no boon protters like it...
Kuja
If someone vampiric bites me that's an "attack" in my book.
Juicey Shake
went on a 45 streak from RA today with my friend booning and.. touch is a joke.. [we had degen mes/war hate, me on enraged thumper, hammer war and my friend, as I said, booning]..
no snares or diversion, with 2 knockdowns each [his was some elite + irris, mine bash & irris]. Faced a few 2 touch ranger / 2 monk teams, a couple 3 touch /1 monk and 1 or 2 4 touch ranger teams.. flawlessed all of them.. it all comes down to knowing how to use the skills you have against them wisely.. irresistable blow > whirling defense woo |
