Just how ARE you supposed to make money?

I couldn't agree more.

Or you can do what I do - mix-and-match armour. I have a warrior, aeromancer and monk. The only character that has identical armour to other players is the aeromancer - the others have different pieces and look excellent. I have never come across someone with the same armour build for my warrior or monk.

buying in extra money should be illegal. it cuases massive inflation of the prices, but our 'income' from farming and other things like running barely goes up. as a result some of the better items become ludicrisly expensive. in the past month ectos prices have almost doubled from 9k, up to 16k. rubys and sapphires have also risen sharply. all in all what we get is a massive supply of identikit PvE W/Mo or Mo/W with the sole purpose of farming or running, becuase there is simply no other way of making enough money to get FoW armour, other than 'ebaying' it.

ps i am not sure if buying in gold is against the rules, but if it is it is in blatent view. u only need to type GW in google, and, there u go. something needs to be done about it, cos right now i dont feel as if i am really earning money. farming is boring and frustrating, running leads to identikit warriors, trading and outwitting ppl just feels wrong. it needs to be fixed, i want to have fun playing a game, and be rewarded for putting my time into it. i dont want to have to go to tedious lenghths to earn virtual money, cos ki may as well spend my time working in sainburys instead. has the divide between games and real life really become so thin?

Well i dont know about putting people in jail for it, but it is against the EULA.

You don't want to farm, run, or trade and expect to get Fissure armor. Doesn't anybody see a problem with this?

Since when did players feel entitled to have everything?

It does screw up the economy, but its just sommin you have to put up with in an MMO, you can complain all you want, but how would you stop it?

As i see it at the moment, the chinese players farm long hours, sell their cash onto money sites for a similar if not better wage to what they would get from an employer.
This is just going from what i see in augury rock and talking to non-farming chinese players.

nobody likes farming, running or scamming 'n00bs' by trading. but, it is neccasary to do this if u want to get fissure armour, unless of course u buy money, which is the real reason for the prices go up so high.
Now u could argue that if u dont want to farm in order to get the rewards it gives, then dont bother. my answer to this is simple: ppl primarily want FoW armour becuase of the 'respect' it gives, the same is true with black dye. its kinda a status symbol. however when i see some1 with FoW armour i come to the conclusion that they either have a near fatal game addiction (see details on game related deaths in china) or have bought gold, which i find morally wrong as, in my eyes it is cheating.
My quarm is that FoW armour should be reward not for lucky farming, the same W/Mo build as every1 esle, tricking ppl into getting u a profit, the complete lack of anything better to do but farm, or a credit card. that is how it stands at the moment. it shpuld rather be a reward for something better, which the community can truly respect.
I suggest a series of challenges that are possible solo affairs, that require quick thinking, clever use of skills etc, and crucially are nerf proof. that way u could actually test a single players skill, and reward them for it, rather than rewarding the char with most time/biggest bank balance.
soz for long post

That would go against the whole idea of cooperative game play that GW attempts to achieve.

I am unsure why people are complaining. You want it - grind for it.

It is not meant to be easy.

HArder compared to the past - sure. But the past had a horrible economy - and I bet you guys complained about it caused you could not afford a 28 Fortitude mod.

Now ANet fixed that- a more pragmatic issue - you get a new "problem".

You guys want your 50k easy for no other reason just to have a status symbol.
ANet already gave you a way to achieve more useful items yet this is enough. You want everything easy.

Sorry - you guys have not come up with any reason for ANet to make acquiring 50k easy.

It seem you guys are looking for a more traditional RPG (not even MMORPG since you want to solo everything).

GW is not it.

hi AncientPC

i have Drok armor and am saving all my gold for chapter 2 goodies.

i am still having fun without FOW armor or a perfect chrystaline blade or perfect anything

but i still am having fun.

lead me to the proper place that i might be satisfied with only the best and most perfect.

i feel so inferior in my 19% goodies

My comments were directed more towards the "omgwtfbbq why is it so hard to get fissure armor?!!? it's not fair!!!1!!1".

you just need to speak their language.

OMGWTFBQ Y IS IT SO HARD 2 GET FISUR3 ARMOR!?!!?????!1!11!1!11!1??!!!? WTF LOL ITS NOT FARE!1!11!11!111!!1!11!!! WTF

Yeah that's true. I know b/c I'm living in the basement of the man who made the first ones. He's my grandfather Tracy Hall. But while they can be created the cost of making them really isn't that cheap. it takes a lot of energy, technology, and time... kindof like farming...

LOL, how quickly things degenerate into the Haves' vs. the Havenots', and, I'm starting to see a trend here, PVE vs. PVP.

For those of you that feel this issue is beaten to death, click next, close the browser, in general, just move on. There's nothing to see here. Otherwise, I want to point something out that is just so comical.

Fissure armor and black dye = respectability? OMG!!! I don't know whether to /rolleyes or /laugh hysterically. I feel like I'm back in grade/middle school seeing comments like this. Anyone can easily afford those things if they really want to, and even without having to work hard. But please, I have seen plenty of good players wearing collector armor from the Crystal Desert (good money, and therefore, prolly good energy management) and plenty of black dye 15k wearing armor that do not know even the basic mechanics of the game, and no, better equipment does not mean you will perform better. The wrong skill set, though, does means you will lose every time. There is no one uberbuild that will pwn every other class. Ever have a 105 monk in PVP or PVE PUG? They are entirely worthless for the very reason that they are only designed for one activity, yet people still try to use them, what are they thinking?

Perhaps the non PVP players need to be led into a secret... You get unlimited godly weapons and droknar armor w/o having to spend *ANY* gold. As many as you want, as often as you want. Any perfect staff, wands, offhand, runes, etc. All it takes is a little patience, you might even call it "faction farming", if you must. But for the PVE die hards, I'd venture to guess that you have prolly unlocked most everything you need anyway. Maybe this will encourage more PVE player to play perhaps another 50% of the game content that is GW. Not that I do, I'm just not a competitive perosn by nature, and I rather be in a cooperative environment than to put up with constant (and might I add, often times childish) taunting, win, or lose. Though I snicker everytime I hear someone state that they think they're almost done with the game by reaching level 20 in the Maguuma Jungles. I sure did!

GW is by far the best setup that I have seen from all of the MMORPGS (and I have beta tested some of these prolly before you were two separate sets of chromosones). You don't have to grind to maximize the gaming experience. It is skill based in it that longer play does not equate to more power. I cant tell you how many light bulbs I turn on with some PVE players that have played the game their way (or, as I so affectionately call the Old Way, the usual MMORPG grind), and showed them how they can simpy change attributes on demand (reconfigure skills and attribute points, or as I've started calling it, reskill, on an activity by activity basis, be it running, treasure hunting, skill capping, CA, TA). I was sad that they took away the ability to change attributes in instances though. It was exploited by farmers, but it was also more flexible for certain situations. And that generalization (also a common PVE player trait) isn't always good and that specialization to fit into a team build is even more rewarding, at least in GW.

Ah, farming... I've already said plenty on this topic in other thread so I'll just summerize here by stating thta it is work and some people do enjoy work and the goodies as their rewards. It sounds pretty fair and simple. Then again, there are those who don't want to work and just want the government to provide for them in our society. To that, I say, to each his and her own. The government isn't about to provide every member of its citizen a 60" plasma TV. Tt might at best make sure you don't starve to death and revolt out of the neccity for survival and topple its power base, the government isn't in its business for you, just as Anet isn't in the business for you to have what you want (Fissure armor to demonstrate that you are not a noob, for instance, whatever happened to just play well to demonstrate the same for free?), only that you have enough of a good time so you keep giving them money.

There is a very interesting phenomon I am observing. Lately, almost everyone I speak to in game, and perhaps it is slightly tilted because of the activities I have been participating in, have multiple accounts. To take a break from the now mind-numbingly boring green farming since I'm so close to having every green item, I began offering my running service to people. Some times for a very reasonable fee, other times, simply for tips only. Most of the people that I run, especially the wealthy ones (10k tip, could you belive it?) have at least two, some even have more accounts, not for their friends or family, but for themselves!!! And mostly because of farming. Appearantly, this is so that they can farm UW regardless of who has favor. At any rate, in observing this, I'd say Anet has done something right. They have designed GW to exploit its community by selling multiples of the same product to single invidual users. It'd be like if the cellphone company figured out a way for you to have 3 phones and pay for them to use by yourselves most of the time. To that, I'd say brilliant! This is why this thread exist. And we are all sheeps! :P

No, i wouldnt. I've taken 5 toons through the entire pve game. With some of them, even managing my funds, i've made it to Droknars without even enough gold to buy a full set of armor. With others I've sqaundered money and made it that far with over 10K. But 10K aint much. If you're looking to purchace items beyond what is neccessary, then simply managing your money aint enough, you have to bring funds in. Simply "playing the game" is enough for some ppl, but if you want multiple sets of armor to accomodate different builds, 15K armor, runes, quality weapons, etc, you need to be raking in more platinum than you can get by doing Thunderhead Keep over and over. This means farming, plain and simple.

You don't *NEED* 15k armor to accomodate your build. And I do do Thunderhead Keep over and over because so many people need help with them. It's actually quite enjoyable, actually, to lead people through a mission that is impossible in their minds.

Wow! New breakthrough! Headlines everywere! Alert the media!

If that comes off as harsh. . .it has been said before. Infact, it has been said so many times I am tired of seeing it. If you insist on being technical about it, you don't need armor, or weapons. A mesmer can go through the game without a wand, offhand item, or armor. He or she might have energy problems, and die easily, but the armor and weapons are not needed. It was never about the need, something you and many others seem to be missing. It is about the imbalance.

To make a long rant short , most of the posters here bashing farming don't really understand the difference between WANT and NEEDs.

In RPGs, especially in online games, WANTs drive the game and provide a set of goals for most people, an incentive to keep playing. Sure, there is no NEED for 15K/Fissure/Sup runes/Black dyes/etc, but likewise, neither is there a NEED to complete the bonuses, finish all the quests. Furthermore, one person's WANTs may be another person's NEEDs. What we strive for in-game is relative to each person, and just like you may enjoy getting all the bonuses, another player may enjoy having a set of fully dyed Fissure armour. Who's to say that its wrong?

Games are all about WANTs and not NEEDs. WANTs provide goals for players to work towards, something that keeps players interested in the game and gives them fun. To say that somebody's WANTs are stupid or that you should simply play the game doesn't serve any purpose.

Yep, but you need about 30 k for skills plus 10 for droknar armour for each character and now don't tell me that you don't need all skills in a game which completely resolves around them.

Some people mentioned that the 1k price limit is an improvement. I stopped playing about 2 months before the SF update and only returned after it was published. Although my memory may be faulty I don't remember that skills cost more than 500 gold after I unlocked most of them (2 were missing). The old system only did hurt people who tried to unlock through changing their secondary class but the skills were at a reasonable price for players who didn't need/want more than the skills for the original classes. The new price system which hits 1k at no time combined with the terrible drops if you "just play the game" encourages farming which shouldn't be needed to get the basic stuff.

Even ANet warned people to spend their remaining skill points before the SF update because they would be more expensive afterwards.

I don't need them, I am holier then thou.

Hey mods, can I have that as my board title?

Harsh? Do you even realize your "logic" is your own worse enemy?

The example you give is completely irrelevent to the 15k arguement. At the risk of you failing to see that again, I will ask for all's patienct to humor me with this: THERE IS NO STATISTICAL DIFFERENCE ACROSS ALL LVL 20 ARMORS! There is no hidden secret bonus that you get with fissure or 15k armor. Yes, people are convinced of it. But it's an urban legend so stick it in your pipe and smoke it. It's just another set of clothes. That is why you don't need them. Not that you don't need armor or weapons. Sheesh, some people! ><

You can get the level 20 collector armor for practically free (I hope you do know that, if not, consider it a free tip) and be just as competive in game, if you are just playing the game of GW. If you want stuff to impress, appeal, attract others, it is another game that you are playing. A game that exist solely in your mind. It does not exist in GW other than as an extension of your vanity and fantasy.

Fraid that is wrong, if you do most of the skill quests you can pick up many of the skills you will use. Those that you cannot, well, they start at 50 gold. Unless you are getting run, you won't spend anything like 30k on skills. I'd say 10k maximum.

Here we go again. I'll try and explain this so that everyone can perhaps understand it this time.

In any role-playing game, the long-term part revolves around three things. Levels, the storyline, and items (gold is a subsection of items). Guild wars has only one of these things, as level is capped at 20, and is easy to get to. The storyline is fairly short as well. That leaves one thing: items.

So, the PvE side of guild wars revolves around items. Items can be found or purchased with gold (a subsection of items, remember). However, to get any sort of money for items that a player wants (not needs, wants) that player does not have the option to play in large groups. Since playing merchant in LA is not even fun for the majority of people, we can rule out that option. Since the most profitable run (beacon's to droknar's forge) is restricted to a very few classes, that rules out all rangers, mesmers, necromancers, and elementalists from that option. Which leaves us at. . .farming. Now, solo farming is fun for the majority of players (or so it seems anyway) Heck, even I enjoy it sometimes. However, for a game that is, on the surface, about skill and not time spent, this is counter-intuitive. Any old Joe can find a solo monk build and farm the underworld, so long as he can react faster than a 70-year old grandfather.

All the farmers complain about how everyone wants to nerf the farmers. If you could show me were this is said, please do. It seems to me that most people want to balance the drops between solo groups and teams, not make solo farming impossible or any less profitable than it is right now. Unless you enjoy being able to lord your riches over those who play in groups, I do not see how you can interpret that as a "nerf".

Logic? I believe I already said it is not about needing the armor. If you think the imbalance I spoke of was between the armors, let me disabuse you of that now, before you continue. I was speaking of the difference in gold and items for players in groups compared to solo farmers. Read the above part of my post if that is not enough information for you.

I have tried to refrain from claiming you are ignorant of basics. Please return the favor.

By the way. . .you might want to put that pipe down. Smoking kills, no matter your income.

Heck, is it so hard to understand?

We know, we don't need any expensive armor or cool looking weapon or fancy dye. It's getting really boring.

But some PvE players *want* FoW armor or whatever.

And no, we don't want it in one week. It must be a hard goal to achieve, it always have been hard (well, not so hard for price reset exploiters), but now the effort to get it is way bigger than some months ago: more money needed to buy materials and pitiful drop rate everywhere, especially in uw.

Is this fair?

I know, my english sucks, but shouldn't be so hard to understand

Well said (in fact, well said many times before in this thread). I just hope that if there will be more ways to customize your looks in the new chapter, there will not not be a 'only-29-hours-spent-farming'-price tag on them. Let people just drink ale as their gold sink: clothes should be nearly free.

how about spiffy outfits to wear around town as quest rewards (hard quests)

do this get a vest
do that get shorts/skirt/tux/

like the idea?

how about jewelry to wear?

*nod*
Clothes don't cost a ton in real life, I don't see why they should in GW. Now before anyone gets on me about their fissure armor, and prestige, I say ANet should leave that alone. Let the lamers keep their ugly black armor. Put in like 20 new sets for each class, all priced the same as the 1.5k forge armor. Add some new 15k sets that look extra special. Add new collector's armor! There's no reason that everybody's character should look the same. We're all different people, aren't we?

To the OP, across all 4 of my characters, I have 6 pieces of 15k armor. I have deleted characters in the past that had 15k armor. My total amount of time spent farming? Less than one hour. Across all my characters, I have 19.6+1.9+1.5+2.5k gold, and 3k in storage. That's 28.5k.. and I recently got scammed out of 90k. I've never done more than use collector's weapons, and sell the gold weapons I get, stupid upgrades coughsunderingcough, etc. I loath farming, but my characters basically look how I want them to.
The 19.6k is actually on my newest character, my mesmer, and I never transfered any money to her. I'll most likely get the 15k virtuoso chest piece for her when she gets that far in the game.
I know I'm nowhere near rich, and I've wasted a lot of money on characters that I no longer have, but my goals are pretty much met. All that I lack is a superior absorbtion rune for my warrior.. which was how I ended up getting scammed, but that's another story.
Granted, I have been playing 1,488 hours.. but I don't really have money problems anymore. Maybe it just gets easier once you see how things work.

Now.. although money isn't that hard for me to come by anymore, I can very easily sypathize with what other people like Roza are saying. I think I'd put more than 500 hours in the game before I got my first full set of forge armor for my monk. For a game that's supposed to be able to be *beaten* in 200 hours, that's just rediculous. I remember how hard it was, and it just doesn't seem right to me that people have to work so much to make their character an individual. That's my opinion.

Ohh.. jewelry.. more things to spend money I don't have on

Thank you for sympathizing. I spent about 850 hours in the game. I guess I would have been able to afford 15K armour if I did not spend about 80% of my time in the game doing pvp, nowadays, I suppose. Giving some stuff away and not wanting to stand around for a long time around trying to sell stuff does not help, of course.

When the new chapter comes out, I will of course do the pve story and the quests (probably with one character only). I am hoping that that will net me enough gold to be able to afford most of the goodies the devs will put in the next chapter. I don't mind if they put in more prestige armours etc., as long as the non-prestige armours are the best-looking ones.

Amen to that.




Maybe I'll get you a christmas present soon. Help you on your armor a bit.
I don't really need the money I have for anything, really.

Just to clarify, i'm well aware that 15K armor is not needed. Dont want it? Then dont worry about. I really dont think it looks any better than 1.5K, some of it looks worse, but many of us thrive on having tangible goals to work toward. Sure, just playing the game and having fun is all good and everything, but i'd like to make it work toward something as well, even if it is something as useless as 15K armor. It used to be about getting to level 20, then it was about getting all the skills, then getting some decent weapons. Now what? I'm not saying there isnt plenty more to do in the game, just that setting some sort of goal for yourself actually makes the game more fun. Every time you play you're getting a little closer and maybe you feel like you accomplished something. Then you finally get your armor and you think "This is it? Why did i spend all my time on this?", but hey, at least it'll piss ppl off on the forums.

Really how? Cubic Z does not count. Yes they can be created from coal and an emence amount of pressure and heat over hundreds of years but who has the time.

If you know a way to make diamonds then I would much rather know that then how to make gold in GW.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

Dont forget me when you become rich :P

Wow, excellent.

That was a good read

i'm sick of ppl complaining about fow armor being too hard to get. if u REALLY want it, u do what it takes to get it, problem solved. unless u ebay or unless u were around for the solo build or price reset, well guess what? u gotta FARM for it.
personally i just need 20 more ectos to get a complete set. yea, i'm vain. i've always been vain and i enjoy having a char with an expensive armor that has no extra bonus.
asside from that i got 200k and lots of greens. how did i get these? well i FARMED them, including the ectos. sadly i was not around for the solo monk build so i always did 2 man uw.
and i'm not complaining about fow being unachieveble and i'm not spending 10 hours a day on gw, i actually go to university.
just think for a bit. it takes MAX 30 minutes to do a uw smites run. in 1 run usually 1 ecto drops, if ur lucky more, if ur not there is no ecto. but fact is in 1-2 hours u DO end up with 1 ecto.
do this everyday, u'll have enough to get fow armor AND u'll end up with at least 100k gold just by picking up the crap that drops and selling it to the merchant.
by doing 2 hours of farming daily for 3-4 month, u have the most expensive armor in the game. i really don't think it takes too long. if it were any easyer, it would be ridiculous.
i mean cmon, any of u here played diablo2? remember to get a tyrael armor or any other expensive item u needed to do THOUSANDS of runs and either way it might actually just never drop (i never managed to get 1, even after leaving farming bot on for 5 months each night!) i mean THAT IS GRINDING not the petty fow armor that u can get just by farming 2 hours a day.

Lol spending 2 hours on Farming???waht about quests,storyline,and all the PvP fun, u need another 2 hours to enjoy it.so it makes around 4hours a day.

If you want to spend 2 hours on a daily basis doing UW-farming for weeks and weeks, that is your choice, of course. Me, I would rather be turned into a bot than spend my time that way.

Agreed...wehn I finish UW quests, Im not gonna comeback threr- I was myslef a dedicated UW farmer before, but its justr plain boring!beter to get some 40k weapon and sell it if u need but not spend 1 mil on FoW armor!U can earn a lot of money wohtout stupid UW farming just by plaing normal missions

u missed the point of my post. i was just saying that fow armor is not that hard to get if u really want it. just with 2 hours a day of uw u can do it in 3-4 months.
and i farm uw with a good friend or a guildie. it's 100% better and more fun than questing/doing missions/SF with frustrating pugs.
i mean i dunno why ppl find farming uw so awful. it's so much eazier than SF. hell when i farm 2 man UW, i wach tv at the same time and not die. if u can't do that, it means that ur build is wrong...
and earning money from normal missions? that's BS. i have 5 lvl 20 rp chars. after the second char, missions get boring and tedious. completing some missions actually made me spend money on runers or pro monks.

no it just means you havnt used the cookie cutter invinci build of the month, also i like the way you say ONLY 3-4 months

lol.

Nope, after the last desert mission you don't get skill quests anymore and there are still about 30 standard skills left from both classes. You use up the early discount for about 20 signet of captures.

As for Diamonds being made - Their called 'processed" when you buy them in the store - and sell for little over the price of Cubic Z. people want the real thing dug out of the ground.

Just like Buying a collectors 15>50 bow for 3 shells or neckalces or w/e, as opposed to a 10k 15>50 gold bow. No stat difference...people just Want the REAL THING - so pay more for it.